18w or 36w for live use

Double-Bubble! Place for discussing the 36W version...

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hallgn
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18w or 36w for live use

Post by hallgn »

Just wondered what everyone would recommend for live use with a tele please ?
I'm looking for a clean/edge of breakup sort of sound - not too loud as our drummer now uses an electric kit.
Another option would be a 36w with power scaling.
Thanks,
Glenn.
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1950
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18er.

Post by 1950 »

My 18'er + 2 X 12"'ers does great in bars here in Ireland, the bars get pretty full of shouters (Langers) and general loud things go on too, a good night would end up on number 7 or 8 vol level, but its pretty distorted by then, s'pose I'm on humbuckers though.
I have a Vox 30 combo and I'd say that the 18'er has far more "sound punch" than the Vox 30.
I dont think you'd have any sound problems outside.
Good luck with it though.
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Re: 18w or 36w for live use

Post by ajkimba »

hallgn wrote:Just wondered what everyone would recommend for live use with a tele please ?
I'm looking for a clean/edge of breakup sort of sound - not too loud as our drummer now uses an electric kit.
Another option would be a 36w with power scaling.
Thanks,
Glenn.
I would want a 36 watt with VVR, no questions asked. An 18 watt isn't that clean at medium to lower volume settings even with a tele. I use an 18 at most gigs but I always mic it to a PA.

Without a PA, which as happens, I can't get clean, on the edge of break-up tones that are loud enough to keep up with a drummer and another guitar player wit a 40 watt amp. In other words, at 7 or 8 vol the tone is too distorted for most of our songs and still doesn't cut against a second guitar player's 40 watt amp.

To be safe and with no PA, I would go for a 36 watt with VVR, no second thoughts.
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Post by hallgn »

Thanks guys - I think 36w with power scaling is the safe option.
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Post by stevesuk »

The speakers used have a great bearing on perceived loudness when using an 18W.
A Celestion Century at 103dB is twice as efficient (sound level wise) as a 100dB speaker, such as a G12H. A 2 X 12" using Century's is very,very loud.

I have just built an 18W for a well respected guitarist who plays duos and a full band at least 3/4 times every week of the year.

I built it into a Linear Diatonic cage type chassis which is very small and light.

He uses a 2X 12" G12H cab for duos and a 4 X 12" cab (Vintage 30's well played in) for the full band.

He uses the amp on 3 for the duo and 6 for the band. He uses various pedals with both. He cuts through the band easily and that is with a stadium drummer (long time drummer in Thunder). If he wants clean he just rolls of the volume on his guitar, Strat, Tele or LP. It is also encouraging him to play more rhythm than he previously did with a Fender Tonemaster which needed pedals for anything but clean.

He say's he has had more comments complimenting his sound in the last month than in 30 years of playing, most of them start with, how many watts is that amp ?

Whether the 18 watt is played through a 2 X 12", 4 X 12" or miked up, if the components used are chosen carefully (I always use mustard caps) they will sound better for certain types of music than any amp around.
Steve UK
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Post by zaphod_phil »

ajkimba wrote: An 18 watt isn't that clean at medium to lower volume settings even with a tele. I use an 18 at most gigs but I always mic it to a PA.
Just to split hairs a little here, in my own experience I have no problem getting clean tones with S/C pickups from an 18W at lower volume settings. Just rolling back the guitar volume control brings out the clean tones nicely. Then digging in a little harder gets you to the edge of breakup. However, I agree with you that you that you would have a challenge hearing yourself over the drummer and the rest of the band when playing that clean with a regular 18W.

However, IMO steveuk's way of using high efficiency speakers is a good one. We sometimes forget that a 3dB increase in speaker efficiency yields around the same increase in volume as doubling the amp's power output.
stevesuk wrote:I built it into a Linear Diatonic cage type chassis which is very small and light.
That really is a tiny chassis. Did you convert an actual Linear Diatonic into an 18W then? I've bought one myself with the intention of converting it into some kind of SuperLite 18W, but looking at how small the chassis is, am starting to have second thoughts.... maybe it will have to be another Lite IIb...
stevesuk wrote:... and that is with a stadium drummer (long time drummer in Thunder).
Now that really is some drummer!
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Post by stevesuk »

Phil,
The Diatonic is a really tight squeeze. I had to use an RS tag board as opposed to my usual RS turret hole board.
I built a vol/tone 2 X EL84 and 2 X ECC83 Lite.
Both transformers were scrap and I ended up using just the chassis and the top cage.
There isn't really room on the front for much more than jacks, two switches, vol, tone and an indicator lamp.
I repositioned the new transformers and the valves.
with two chrome handles it is superlight and astounding to most that such a sound can come from such a small source.
I have attached a couple of pics. of the amp 'as found' all Mullard or Mazda and all broken. It has turned out to be so popular I am manufacturing heads based on this design, but a little bit bigger.
Steve UK
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Post by kedsinger »

I have an 18w and 36w I built. I wish I could use the 18 live because I feel the tone is a little better than the 36. One of my bands is an 80's tribute :lol: not the bad stuff...Journey,Boston,Tesla,Van Halen etc...but my drummer hit's so hard that I couldnt hear myself on stage w/ the 18 and I don't like my amp being fed back through the monitor(sounds funny). We always have a PA, but that doesn't help w/ stage level. So I've been gigging w/ my 36w w/ an attenuator but end up bypassing it by the second set. I would have to say it depends on how loud your band is. With my other band I the 18w is perfect because we have a lighter drummer.
Keith
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That would drive me crazy

Post by kirkster »

I can't stand not to hear myself, but I also can't stand stage volumes that are so loud you can't talk to the guy next to you over stage vol without yelling. Sounds like your drummer needs a plexi screen. Our praise band has monitored vol levels and we run about 85 to 95 on stage. (we also use a yamaha electronic set too..that helps). Our monitor system has 4 separate channels. we use one for drums/bass, one for guitar/keyboards, one for left vocals (praise leader and one singer if present) and right vocals (backup singers). The fact we can limit what is in all 4 monitors allows us to run much lower than a lot of folks. Plus my amp is behind the stage pointed up at me. I get a good fill and the rest of the band doesn't get hammered from being down wind.
Am playing with my 18 watt for the first time live sunday. My fender is sick and in the shop...so it gets the call a couple weeks early. Have to go home tonight and screw it to a plank so noone gets electrocuted. Oughta look real cute sitting on the back edge of the stage. Hope to work on the head cab this weekend some...got to cut the boards and go work on the finger grooves.
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Post by hallgn »

Thanks everyone.
I tried a master volume 36w the other night and really liked it.
It sounded as though it would be loud enough too.

StevesUK, I'm in the UK too do you accept orders please ?
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Post by stevesuk »

Hallgn,
I am shortly to go into the amp business full time, but it is not on to advertise on 18watt.com

Since Barry at Ampmaker has been out of retail action it has been difficult for UK builders to get bits at a reasonable price.

Email me at stevesmith350(remove this)@hotmail.com and I'll tell you what I do.

Steve UK
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Post by hallgn »

Thanks Steve,
Apologies if my post was inappropriate.
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Post by veets »

My guitar player uses nothing but Telecasters and plays into an 18 Watter I built for him with 6V6's. Great clean tone with a Celestion Seventy in a separate cab. Actually uses a pedal in front of it for distortion, and then mic's it up into the PA when we play out. Never needed more oomph. In fact, at practice, he just uses it straight up, no mic, right on the edge of breakup. Just rolls off the guitar volume for a cleaner tone. Volume control is set to about 3-4 most of the time. So you may find that an 18 is all you need.
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Post by BBQLS1 »

I love the 18 watter. With the right band, it's about as perfect as an amp can get for me, but for a gigging musician (In the US), you need 40 Watts just to make sure you have enough.

If you have the right band though, the 18 watt is a tad sweeter.
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Post by blaren »

Just get he 36W TMB with the half power switch.
It's a 36W AND a 18W.
That's what I have and it's my FAVORITE. 18W doesnt have enough headroom sometimes. 36W will handle the biggest gigs. The master volume WORKS too.
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Re: 18w or 36w for live use

Post by zaphod_phil »

hallgn wrote:Just wondered what everyone would recommend for live use with a tele please ? I'm looking for a clean/edge of breakup sort of sound - not too loud as our drummer now uses an electric kit.
I've played some gigs where the drummer used a digital kit, and with an 18W amp, I actually had to use an attenuator turned down to about half way. 8O For regular drummers, a 36W (possibly with a 1/2 power switch like Blaren says), is probably a better idea if you want a lot of clean tones. If you're more into hard/heavy rock then a cranked 18W will be plenty loud.
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