Snake Oil Capacitors?

George60 · Post by **George60** » Fri 06/11/10 10:53 am

I am slowly but surely assembling a Ceriatone 36W EF86 kit. The project is currently on hold due to a lack of Snake Oil solder, Cardas Quad-Eutectic, more is on the way.

Let me start out by stating that I think all guitar amps are harsh and nasty sounding. I was thinking that I may be able to get a slightly smoother sound by using Snake Oil coupling capacitors instead of the Mallory 150's that came with the kit. I had Auricap in mind.

Anyone care to throw in their two cents worth?

krx · Post by **krx** » Fri 06/11/10 11:20 am

If you think all guitar amps are harsh and nasty sounding, maybe you should stick to acoustics

I don't think you'll hear much difference with Auricaps vs. 150s (in a guitar amp). They're both metallized polypropylene. I would try a polyester film+foil cap instead. Orange Drop PS (not 715/716) and Mojo Dijon are great cheap choices, but there are other more expensive options.

George60 · Post by **George60** » Fri 06/11/10 11:54 am

Thanks for replying.

Acoustics guitars are bright and twangie unless its a classical guitar. Unfortunately it takes real talent to play classical guitar which lets me out.

I'll give the Mallory's about 100 hours to see what I think of them. Then I'll put Snake Oil capacitors in the amp and I will be convinced that it sounds much better because I payed a lot for the capacitors. It's all in the mind and mine doesn't work very well.

Auricap's are a step up from Solen Fast Cap's in home stereo speaker crossovers. The only thing I have any real experience with.

nyazzip · Post by **nyazzip** » Fri 06/11/10 12:38 pm

crank down all treble/presence knobs, and use old strings. i don't really like strings till they are a week or two old. i bend and whammy a lot too, and they never seem to break, so they live to a ripe old age

krx · Post by **krx** » Fri 06/11/10 12:40 pm

If you're hell-bent on using expensive capacitors, I would try a paper-oil, foil-oil, or film-foil, not another metallized polypropylene. The difference will be more dramatic, especially with the oil caps.

George60 · Post by **George60** » Fri 06/11/10 1:15 pm

It's definately in the treble and presence controls. I can get a sound that I am more than happy with out of my current amp which is a Mesa Boogie Mark III Simul-Class combo with a Thiel extension cabinet and EVM-12L drivers. I crotch down sideways close to the amp so I can hear the sound on axis with the drivers to adjust the tone controls. The precense control is touchy and it's on the back of a Boogie. There seems to be a fine line between muddy and harsh. If I am playing in a small bar and the top speaker is pointed at my butt the amp doesn't sound right on stage but it sounds fine out in the audience. I get lots of comments on how good my sound is.

I do like new strings better. That's probably because I play Jackson guitars with alnico magnet humbucker pickups which are a little dull sounding to start out with.

krx · Post by **krx** » Fri 06/11/10 2:05 pm

nyazzip wrote:crank down all treble/presence knobs, and use old strings. i don't really like strings till they are a week or two old. i bend and whammy a lot too, and they never seem to break, so they live to a ripe old age

I feel the same way about strings. You should try the DR Tite Fits if you haven't. They lose that new, metallic edge very quickly and then sound great forever.

George60 · Post by **George60** » Fri 06/11/10 4:59 pm

I sent a email to the Snake Oil capacitor store, that I have faith in, and they replied. They agreed with KRX that Mallory and Auricap are a wash for this application. What the store reccommended, if I was willing to invest a good deal of money, are Jupiter HT capacitors. I specified that I was looking for a little bit smoother, fuller sound. The Jupiters are aluminum and beeswax paper. I don't think the store is trying to rip me off. They carry Mundorf and they recommened what is a mid-line capacitor to them.

Beeswax, it doesn't get any more antiquated than that. I can envision my amp dying in the middle of a big gig because the beeswax melted. I will stick to the Mallorys for now. I still need to get speakers and I have been eyeing up Celestion Alnico Golds. They're not very cheap either.

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Fri 06/11/10 6:46 pm

Keep in mind the fact that in hi-fi they want to have frequency response up to at least 20kHz, while in guitar amps you want to roll off above 10kHz (typically starting around 5kHz), to help keep the tone smooth and not harsh.

krx · Post by **krx** » Fri 06/11/10 7:47 pm

[quote="George60"I can envision my amp dying in the middle of a big gig because the beeswax melted.[/quote]

That is apparently precisely what happens when you try to use them in a guitar amp. I've seen a couple shops that have stopped carrying them due to reliability problems.

George60 · Post by **George60** » Sat 06/12/10 3:36 pm

Jupiter Condensers it is then. Any day now I am going to be 61, as in years old, so I survived the 60's. Everything the British made; cars, motorcycles, amps, whatever, always failed at the worst possible time. To have the true 60's Brit experinence the amp has to have a failure factor built in. I had a Fender Super Reverb in the 60's, nothing to get excited about. In 1972 I got an Ampeg V4, a vast improvement. I am not a rocker. I have mostly played in "Blue-Eyed Soul" groups. My parents never explained to me that I wasn't black.

Actually Jupiter has a new High Temperature (70C / 158F) condenser that is supposed to hold up in tube amps. Expensive, .01uF - $27.50. I am going to give the Mallory's six months or so and then I may try Jupiter's in the EF86 channel.

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Sat 06/12/10 6:56 pm

Don't forget what I just said. Hi-fi type caps are more likely to make your amp sound harsh, as they won't roll off the top end frequencies that make for the harshness in guitar amps that you said you don't like.

Brewmaster · Post by **Brewmaster** » Sat 06/12/10 7:27 pm

Jupiter has a line of caps that are, allegedly, replacements for Astrons. Great if you are building an old Fender Tweed, or Ampeg

I have heard good things about the vitamin T line of oil filled caps from some highly regarded techs. I may try some in my 18 and 36 watt amps when I have the $$$.

George60 · Post by **George60** » Sat 06/12/10 9:01 pm

zaphod_phil I totally understand what you are saying about hi-fi capacitors.

The Jupiter's were recommended by Jeff Glowacki at Sonic Craft and Jeff is considered to be the capacitor guru in audiophool, I mean audiophile, circles. I specified that I was looking for a capacitor that would be smoother and fuller sounding than a Mallory 150 in a 18W Marshall guitar amp. I am willing to try Jupiter caps on Jeff's recommendation after I have used the amp stock for about six months. In just the EF86 channel at first.

Not only do I think that most guitar amps are a bit harsh I also think that all high end hi-fi is too bright. Jeff helped me dial in the passive crossovers in my home stereo speakers and I am thrilled with the results. They are fuller and smoother sounding with no loss of detail.

Here's a bizarre opnion. I think Marshall amps are a tad thinner and brighter than most amps, but not nasty bright like a Fender, and that a Marshall with the right tubes that is set-up right is the ultimate Funk amp.

krx · Post by **krx** » Sat 06/12/10 9:11 pm

Brewmaster wrote:Jupiter has a line of caps that are, allegedly, replacements for Astrons. Great if you are building an old Fender Tweed, or Ampeg

I have heard good things about the vitamin T line of oil filled caps from some highly regarded techs. I may try some in my 18 and 36 watt amps when I have the $$$.

I built a 5F1 and 5F2A with the Vitamin Ts. Sounded nice and smooth, but those are single-enders that already sound nice and smooth. I figured for the handful of caps that go into one of those, it was a worth a shot. I wasn't blown away enough to use them over my standard Mojo Dijons or Orange Drop PSs in future builds though.

Brewmaster · Post by **Brewmaster** » Sat 06/12/10 9:36 pm

I'm a big fan of the Mojo Dijons as well and have them in my 18 watter so maybe I'll find a different amp to experiment with using the Vitamin T's.

StarGeezers · Post by **StarGeezers** » Sun 06/13/10 8:24 am

Honestly , I've tried a number of $$ caps , and really can't hear enough of a difference to justify the extreme expense over , Mallorys , ODs or Sozos... You must need dog ears, waaaaay out of the guitar's sonic range ...

I even got one of those "special guitar caps " @ 18.00 USD , set it up on a switch to A/B... No real difference ...except the price...

sub · Post by **sub** » Mon 06/14/10 4:10 am

krx wrote: I don't think you'll hear much difference with Auricaps vs. 150s (in a guitar amp). They're both metallized polypropylene.

Maybe i'm wrong, but I think Mallory 150 is metallized polyester.

krx · Post by **krx** » Mon 06/14/10 9:09 am

sub wrote:
krx wrote: I don't think you'll hear much difference with Auricaps vs. 150s (in a guitar amp). They're both metallized polypropylene.
Maybe i'm wrong, but I think Mallory 150 is metallized polyester.

Ah, you're right, my mistake. They're both metallized film though and I don't think there'd be a significant difference between them in a guitar amp.

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Snake Oil Capacitors?

Snake Oil Capacitors?