Suhr Badger 35 Circuit??? Can a 36 Watter sound as good??

Double-Bubble! Place for discussing the 36W version...

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rdamato
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Suhr Badger 35 Circuit??? Can a 36 Watter sound as good??

Post by rdamato »

Hi:

Lurker here! I just played the above mentioned amp at the NY Amp show and was floored by how open the crunch tones were. Sounded more Voxy than Marshall and had some what of a chimey top end.
Are there any 36 watt clips that I can listen to for comparison??

Thanks
Ron
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Post by guitar-rocker »

There is a sound clip of a 36W parallel / cascade in the "hear it" forum. That clip is from one of my amps, a parallel / cascade input, quad of EL84's, if you'd care to check it out. Mr. Brian Story did the sound clips for me, and it ain't too snotty, think you might appreciate it even if that's not the tone you're looking for. Terry
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Post by rdamato »

Hi Terry

Sounds great, but a bit too compressed for me. I prefer a more open sounding overdrive. That's the tone that the Badger 35 gives when pushed. Very articulate.

Thank you
Ron
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Post by zaphod_phil »

The answer to the original question is "Yes - and some!" Unfortunately, it's real hard or almost impossible to demonstrate that in Internet sound clips, played through a PC's sound card.

There's no big secret to the Badger 35W. It's the same 36W power stage - ie a quad of EL84s and a really good quality OT, with no negative feedback. Neither the power tubes nor the OT are being pushed too hard (unlike in the case of a cranked 18W). They all have room to breathe, which gives that open quality you talk about. Then make sure to only use premium quality caps and resistors, and take care with the foil orientation of the signal caps to help reduce background noise.

A simple preamp will also reduce compression and provide more openness. So I would suggest that the Lite IIb preamp would probably give you even more of what you're looking for compared with the Badger 35's higher gain preamp.

It's all simple science, but not rocket science.
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Post by rdamato »

Phil

Thanks much for the detailed response. I did exchange emails with John Suhr and he mentioned that the Badger has DC going to the pre amp heaters to reduce noise. I have no idea what that means, can you elaborate?

Thanks
Ron
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Post by gtrcollectr »

More than likely he has the cathode attached to the center tap of the heater supply to reduce some noise......I have my 18 watt done this way and it works well.

Todd
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Post by TomOlsen1 »

rdamato wrote:Phil

Thanks much for the detailed response. I did exchange emails with John Suhr and he mentioned that the Badger has DC going to the pre amp heaters to reduce noise. I have no idea what that means, can you elaborate?

Thanks
Ron
The standard heater supply is a 6.3V AC supply (The current changes direction). However you can rectify (Make it flow in one direction only) that supply and smooth it. The less AC you have, the fewer noise sources you have.

-Ewald
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Post by rdamato »

Thank you for the explanation.

Are there folks here on the forum that build for others?? I would like to speak with someone about building this amp.

Thanks
Ron
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Post by rock_mumbles »

Suhr Badger 35: description ...

Power Scaling: ...
-- a VVR like voltage regulator

Drive: Feeds the input to the power section.
-- sounds like a PPIMV ???

Gain: ... controlling 2 cascading gain stages simultaneously to drive the input stage.
-- does this mean that the gain control is a ganged pot that half is wired as a normal gain control and half as a pre-PI master ???
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Post by zaphod_phil »

The standard heater supply is a 6.3V AC supply (The current changes direction). However you can rectify (Make it flow in one direction only) that supply and smooth it. The less AC you have, the fewer noise sources you have.
Well yes, in theory. However, rectifying the heater supply usually generates high frequency buzz, which can become even more of a nuisance, unless some careful precautions are taken. Therefore biasing the centre-tap of the heater AC supply to a positive DC voltage source is sometimes preferred, as mentioned by gtrcollctr. The cathodes of a cathode-biased amp is one way, but for maximum effect a filtered source of 30V to 50V DC is even better. Suhr could be using either of those two approaches.
Gain: ... controlling 2 cascading gain stages simultaneously to drive the input stage.
-- does this mean that the gain control is a ganged pot that half is wired as a normal gain control and half as a pre-PI master ???
Yes, that's what it is. I've seen the same thing done in other amps as well.

A couple of other things in general which will help improve preamp openness and definition. The first is to keep preamp voltages fairly high, so that the sound doesn't get too brown and mushy. This is why you ideally wouldn't scale preamp voltages when using a VVR or power scaling. The other is to keep bass frequency tightly limited if you're going to overdrive at all. This Brian May video shows how he uses his treble booster as a bass limiter - http://guitarsquid.com/posts/great-web- ... rig/10150/ (from around 3:20). The tone is still somewhat on the fizzy side for me, a common Vox PI problem, but the improvement in note definition can still clearly be heard.
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rock_mumbles
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Post by rock_mumbles »

zaphod_phil wrote:
Gain: ... controlling 2 cascading gain stages simultaneously to drive the input stage.
-- does this mean that the gain control is a ganged pot that half is wired as a normal gain control and half as a pre-PI master ???
Yes, that's what it is. I've seen the same thing done in other amps as well.

A couple of other things in general which will help improve preamp openness and definition. The first is to keep preamp voltages fairly high, so that the sound doesn't get too brown and mushy. This is why you ideally wouldn't scale preamp voltages when using a VVR or power scaling. The other is to keep bass frequency tightly limited if you're going to overdrive at all. This Brian May video shows how he uses his treble booster as a bass limiter - http://guitarsquid.com/posts/great-web- ... rig/10150/ (from around 3:20). The tone is still somewhat on the fizzy side for me, a common Vox PI problem, but the improvement in note definition can still clearly be heard.
Thanks!
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Post by rdamato »

Zaphod Phil

Would it be possible to speak with you offline? My email is: rgdamato@verizon.net

Thank You
Ron
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