Possibly. Josh's posted voltages indicate a good DC balance, but the AC balance is another story. EL34s require a little more of a push than EL84s too.
36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
Exactly! The intrigue of any theoretical discussion has to outweigh my laziness. Since any potential reward is likely unnoticeable, I'll let somebody else experiment if they want to.
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
I realize this may seem OCD but you could optimize it with a Dale 68.1k and a Dale 22.1k in series, for a nearly perfect balance, just sayin'...
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
Dumble used a trimmer pot in the middle of the pair of PI plate loads and attached B+ to the wiper. The Inverting side might get 91k and balance trimmer at 10k. The AC balance is set by dialing the trimmer and using a scope with a target of about 6V difference being desirable. Some imbalance is desirable for tonal consideration. The 18W PI is more center biased than a Plexi PI too and that will change the sound as well.
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
I have a difference of 2 VDC at the plates, all else matching. I could swap the tube and probably get 10 or 15V difference at the plates, or an exact VDC match.
Theory is great, but tube variance is reality. If you want to tweak that to make your OCD happy, you'll want to do it like colossal said re: dumble, and rebias every time you change the tube. I could see some people being entertained by that...but I'd rather play if I ever get any free time.
Theory is great, but tube variance is reality. If you want to tweak that to make your OCD happy, you'll want to do it like colossal said re: dumble, and rebias every time you change the tube. I could see some people being entertained by that...but I'd rather play if I ever get any free time.
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
I would take a very similar approach:
The AC balance is set by dialing the trimmer and using a stratocaster with a target of the juiciest tone and sweetest sustain being desirable...
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
I am bumping this as I'm interested as well. Josh, did you try A/Bing the stock cap and a 1kuF or just go with the big one to get more of the fixed bias stiffness right from the start?
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
I've built many superlites. I've built them with 100, 250, 1000, and 2200uF caps. They all sound good, but I think I remember liking the 1000 more... Who knows, it's been a long time since I thought much about that cap. I actually drew that circuit a couple years ago, and I'm not getting any younger.
But also keep in mind that my build has a 5AR4 tube rectifier, and I have a dropping resistor on the B+, so it's not going to sound too stiff anyway. If anything I miiiiight have been thinking about how it affects the bottom end.
Thanks,
Josh
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
I know I tried a 1000uF cap once, but it was so long ago I can't quite remember its effects. I want to say I remember it affecting the feel of the amp and I preferred the stock 47uF cap better. Oh, and I meant stock 18W, not a Superlite...JMPGuitars wrote: ↑Tue 09/03/19 1:51 pmI've built many superlites. I've built them with 100, 250, 1000, and 2200uF caps. They all sound good, but I think I remember liking the 1000 more... Who knows, it's been a long time since I thought much about that cap.
Man, none of us are {=[JMPGuitars wrote: ↑Tue 09/03/19 1:51 pmI actually drew that circuit a couple years ago, and I'm not getting any younger.
For sure. The screen supply dropping resistor will dump some voltage on big transients, giving some great sag and compression. That's why we love these amps! Very easy under the fingers and they sustain forever.JMPGuitars wrote: ↑Tue 09/03/19 1:51 pmBut also keep in mind that my build has a 5AR4 tube rectifier, and I have a dropping resistor on the B+, so it's not going to sound too stiff anyway. If anything I miiiiight have been thinking about how it affects the bottom end.
Thanks,
Josh
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
I was playing earlier on a Lite 2b(ish) variant today, with a 250uF cap on the cathode. The amp sounded a little farty playing in the lower register, and especially with my looper pedal playing backing tracks. I rebiased the amp, swapped the 250uF for a 1000uF cathode cap, and it sings now.
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
Hey Josh, nice sounding rig. I love how you’ve got it constantly on the edge.JMPGuitars wrote: ↑Sun 08/11/19 8:32 pmHere's a mediocre demo of my 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB.
2:54 reverb turned on (with the reverb off, the reverb portion of the circuit essentially doesn't exist)
4:39 bridge pickup switched to single coil
Bright/Thick Switch:
5:04 = thick
5:26 = off
5:42 = bright
https://youtu.be/PeRZXThV54s
Thanks,
Josh
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
EL34s are nice and mighty tubes!!! It's on my list to go for an EL34 build in the future. Bluesbreaker style...bvayling wrote: ↑Thu 04/16/20 11:04 pmHey Josh, nice sounding rig. I love how you’ve got it constantly on the edge.JMPGuitars wrote: ↑Sun 08/11/19 8:32 pmHere's a mediocre demo of my 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB.
2:54 reverb turned on (with the reverb off, the reverb portion of the circuit essentially doesn't exist)
4:39 bridge pickup switched to single coil
Bright/Thick Switch:
5:04 = thick
5:26 = off
5:42 = bright
https://youtu.be/PeRZXThV54s
Thanks,
Josh
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
Thanks, I'm a big fan of this amp. I think whoever builds the new docs version of it will enjoy it even more. Circuit and layout improvements since I made that demo.
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
All I can say is Wow, that amp has tone to die for!!! I was just blown away by the sounds in that clip. Great range of clean to dirt tones. Lead notes were nice and thick too. I liked that the dreaded reverb was nice and subtle, and didn't overpower the whole sound of the guitar and amp. I have to say it nicely enhanced the clean lead notes in that section.JMPGuitars wrote: ↑Sun 08/11/19 8:32 pmHere's a mediocre demo of my 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB.
https://youtu.be/PeRZXThV54s
I wasn't so keen on the jazz chords section, but the amp still performed really well. My musical tastes cover the range from Bach to SOAD, but I really can't take jazz or opera
I hope you get to sell lots of these!
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
Thank you!zaphod_phil wrote: ↑Sat 04/18/20 2:51 pmAll I can say is Wow, that amp has tone to die for!!! I was just blown away by the sounds in that clip. Great range of clean to dirt tones. Lead notes were nice and thick too. I liked that the dreaded reverb was nice and subtle, and didn't overpower the whole sound of the guitar and amp. I have to say it nicely enhanced the clean lead notes in that section.
I wasn't so keen on the jazz chords section, but the amp still performed really well. My musical tastes cover the range from Bach to SOAD, but I really can't take jazz or opera
I hope you get to sell lots of these!
I'll make sure to make a heavy reverb jazz only demo, while very poorly singing opera. ...I know what you mean though, I can't deal with 99% of country music.
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
Once again, that's not a problem, nor a mistake at all! Unless you want a hi-fi amp, of course. Having 100k for both PI load resistors gives a slight amount of imbalance, allowing more even-order harmonics to be produced in the power amp for sweeter tones. That's one of the reasons for the Marshall 18W magic. The same logic goes for not using matched power tubes. Note:the 100k/82k combination was introduced be Leo Fender in his misguided quest to make his guitar amps more hi-fi. That error in judgement was then inherited by Marshall, Soldano, Egnater, etc. Since you mentioned Huss, one of Mark Huss' Lite amp designs does use the 100k/68k, as a kind of experimental idea.crgfrench wrote: ↑Mon 09/02/19 11:35 pmJosh you might want to consider changing your plate load resistor to pin 1 of the PI to 82k.
I believe the one at pin 6 should stay at 100k but if you use 100k at pin 1 the PI will have unbalanced outputs.
I'm no expert on LTPs, I only build cathodyne, but I am pretty sure you want lower voltage at pin 6 than on pin 1. Because at pin 6 the signal has already been amplified by the first triode. Using 82k will raise the voltage at pin 1 (I believe it should be 5V to 15V higher) which will result in balanced signals from the PI.
I'm not sure why Trinity uses equal 100k load resistors there (Richie Hall's 18W designs also suffer from this error but his 36WTMB is correct. Ian's reference schematic has it wrong too. All of the Wattkins LTPs have this problem too), but Marshall, Soldano, Egnater, Aiken, Huss, Hoffman and Robinette all use 82k & 100k at the PI.
You could also use 68k at pin 1 and 82k at pin 6 to run it hotter but still balanced.
This might all stem from the original schematic derived from Colin Macfarlane's amp, which shows twin 100k resistors here. That could be a mistake.
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
zaphod_phil wrote: ↑Sat 04/18/20 5:28 pmOnce again, that's not a problem, nor a mistake at all! Unless you want a hi-fi amp, of course. Having 100k for both PI load resistors gives a slight amount of imbalance, allowing more even-order harmonics to be produced in the power amp for increased sweetness in the tone. That's one of the reasons for the Marshall 18W magic. The same logic goes for not using matched power tubes. Note:the 100k/82k was introduced be Leo Fender in his misguided quest to make his guitar amps more hi-fi. That error in judgement was then inherited by Marshall, Soldano, Egnater, etc. Since you mentioned Huss, one of Mark Huss' Lite amp designs does use the 100k/68k, purely as a kind of experimental idea to try. As for Trinity, I was a designer/consultant for them. So now you know!crgfrench wrote: ↑Mon 09/02/19 11:35 pmJosh you might want to consider changing your plate load resistor to pin 1 of the PI to 82k.
I believe the one at pin 6 should stay at 100k but if you use 100k at pin 1 the PI will have unbalanced outputs.
I'm no expert on LTPs, I only build cathodyne, but I am pretty sure you want lower voltage at pin 6 than on pin 1. Because at pin 6 the signal has already been amplified by the first triode. Using 82k will raise the voltage at pin 1 (I believe it should be 5V to 15V higher) which will result in balanced signals from the PI.
I'm not sure why Trinity uses equal 100k load resistors there (Richie Hall's 18W designs also suffer from this error but his 36WTMB is correct. Ian's reference schematic has it wrong too. All of the Wattkins LTPs have this problem too), but Marshall, Soldano, Egnater, Aiken, Huss, Hoffman and Robinette all use 82k & 100k at the PI.
You could also use 68k at pin 1 and 82k at pin 6 to run it hotter but still balanced.
This might all stem from the original schematic derived from Colin Macfarlane's amp, which shows twin 100k resistors here. That could be a mistake.
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Re: 36 Watt EL34 Superlite TMB
What Phil said.
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