Do tubes make the amp?

brain_wreck · Post by **brain_wreck** » Tue 01/09/07 5:18 pm

Mojocat wrote:Or conversely why we even worry about all this BS...

Because there ain't nothing else in the world like playing a kick ass guitar thru a kick ass amp.

I'll take that any day over sex, booze, what you got?

Alexo · Post by **Alexo** » Tue 01/09/07 7:08 pm

...sex?

...really?

kyoungsteadt · Post by **kyoungsteadt** » Tue 01/09/07 7:16 pm

I'm with you, sex first guitar later...

veets · Post by **veets** » Wed 01/10/07 2:06 am

And sex is like NOS tubes---you don't know how good you've got it till you aren't getting any.....
New tubes are crap. I'll buy half burned out RCA's before I'll take newly manufacturd tubes for free.

lagerdog · Post by **lagerdog** » Wed 01/10/07 2:55 am

This all sounds like an urban myth here... NOS... You are not guaranteed any kind of consistency out of anything there... kind of like the Hendrix Fuzzfaces where what's his name played through hundreds to find the three or four... Tubes are related to amps like bears to bacon... waste your money on whatever, but it all boils down to more than people want to analyse... I am dumbfounded that the EE types haven't figured this out "just because". Sure it is a big deal, but c'mon!!! Tubes (whoever) have their own characteristic to match to the circuit... there is no "magical tube"... Check your bias... your "cheap" tubes might want to run a little hotter/colder to sound where "you" want them... I think ( and I've thought this before) on my next version of my "PCB"

version of JA's TMB I'll put in a trimmer pot to fiddle with so you can dial it in just right... It's all about getting the right voltages and currents to the right places and see what happens! If tubes deviate from the "golden" mark, change resistors or caps??? I don't think anyone here has figured it out... It will be work, but don't make a mechanical engineer who has taught himself electronics do it for some of the EE experts here! Or do I have to??? Egads...

All said, Sarge is the guy to fall back on when you can't figure this out...

Blah blah blah... there is no "magic" tube for your amp that you can order off the shelf/Ebay...

brain_wreck · Post by **brain_wreck** » Wed 01/10/07 5:18 am

Alexo wrote:...sex?

...really?

Let's just say that it would be very, very close.

Aharon · Post by **Aharon** » Wed 01/10/07 10:44 am

Tubes may "make or break the amp" once you have all other variables where you want them.
Lately,I've been overly preocupied with tone.
Maybe I hit a rut with my playing or something,the thing is I wasn't happy with any of my gear.
I had about a dozen pickups to install in my Epi LP and none that I tried seem to "fit".
This morning I woke up early and started to work on my guitar changing pickups again (cause that's where tone begins,at least for guys like me,the not so great guitar player types,the lucky ones have it in their hands)
I've been having problems with noise coming from the guitar,dull tone etc. so I finally hit the jackpot,DiMArzio X2N for bridge and a Gibson form a 335 for the neck.................amazing,now I can use my neck p/u,the cleans are there till you push then that beautiful creamy tone......and the bridge ....well overdrive galore but well defined,noise from the guitar is gone,no more looking for the right spot to stand.
Mind you,that combination may be awful to someone else,that worked FOR ME>
Moral of the story:all links are as important as the next,start at the beginning (obvious but ignored),I don't care if you have all NOS Mullards in your 59 BAssman if you guitar is crap,your cable is inductive/capacitive or whatever,your strings are rusty and your speaker is a stereo (unless you are going for that sound, lol).

Spankenstrat · Post by **Spankenstrat** » Wed 01/10/07 11:01 am

rectifier wrote:
zaphod_phil wrote:Only, if the amp is designed and built well in the first place. Otherwise it's like guilding a turd.

I take great pride in the turd's I guild!

Poppatwang · Post by **Poppatwang** » Wed 01/10/07 11:12 am

I'm an apprentice in the Turd Guilders' Guild. For now, I'm only allowed to put frosting on urinal cakes.

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Wed 01/10/07 11:54 am

I'm really starting to worry about the direction this thread is taking with sex and urinal cakes and suchlike. Yeah, I know I started it....

tarzanalog · Post by **tarzanalog** » Wed 01/10/07 12:01 pm

Just keep in mind when shopping online or elsewhere for NOS tubes that most retailers of tubes back in the day had a tube tester on hand to show you that a tube at least powered up before you took it home. I would advise against buying ANY tubes the are described as NOS but have NOT been tested. Just because an old tube is in an old box and looks new doesn't mean that it ever would have worked as it should. It could have been... a turd... from the factory.

(See what I did there? It looked like I was moving back in the direction of being on-topic... and then WHAM, again with the toilet humor!)

Dana-L · Post by **Dana-L** » Wed 01/10/07 12:07 pm

zaphod_phil wrote:I'm really starting to worry about the direction this thread is taking with sex and urinal cakes and suchlike. Yeah, I know I started it....

Yes, this thread is beginning to stink.

That said, it has yielded this absolute gem:

veets wrote:And sex is like NOS tubes---you don't know how good you've got it till you aren't getting any...

Classic.

-Dana

dartanion · Post by **dartanion** » Wed 01/10/07 12:32 pm

I thought we all started playing guitar so we could have MORE SEX!!!

New, old used, and NOS all need to be screened before they make it into one my amps. I have had some great sounding new tubes, but have had much better "LUCK" with used pulls of "OLD" tubes and with NOS.

There is a very good reason why old tubes and NOS seem to work better and last longer than most new tubes. Back when these old or NOS tubes were made, pretty much all electronic equipment relied on tubes to function, and tube manufacturers actually cared about QC. Not the case these days.

Believe what you want to, but tone is the truth. If it sounds good, go with it

rectifier · Post by **rectifier** » Wed 01/10/07 12:41 pm

I love 18watt.com!!!

AncientMariner · Post by **AncientMariner** » Wed 01/10/07 4:26 pm

Just bung my 3 ha'porth in. Some amps will benefit from NOS valves and some won't.

I had a Laney AOR30 a while back. On paper potentially a great amp: 2 X 6V6 and switchable gain stages. With the original Chinese valves it was tolerable. With NOS Mullard 12AX7s in the preamp it was plain nasty. Spent ages trying to make that sound good before I gave up and moved it on (the new owner paid someone to replace all the valves too, and they still disliked it after

).

Now I know those Mullard 12AX7s because I've had them in other amps I've made since then and they're a nice valve, but that amp wasn't designed for them, and a current production item was better. Just choose what suits and don't get suckered.

7enderman · Post by **7enderman** » Wed 01/10/07 6:08 pm

it depends on the amp.
my ´66 super does not sound with old sylvanias, a friend own a ´72 silverface and the same tubes sound perfect.
for preamp stage i prefer in the fender RCA blackplates or jan phillips at V1 and somne old GE stuff.
The 36er needs NOS tubes for the EF86 only and sounds perfect with JJ´s for the AX7 and the EL84.

In general you can polish **** as long as you want but it will just remain ****.
So if the amp does not have the tonal substance and quality you will not be able to improve it that much by using NOS tubes.
A fine amp could be improved with fine tubes but it will take some time to find out the perfect match.
General recommendations like "use this or that" are not the real truth.
It will be at least a hint, but you have to find out the perfect match by yourself.

novemberrain · Post by **novemberrain** » Fri 01/12/07 4:49 pm

7enderman wrote:General recommendations like "use this or that" are not the real truth.
It will be at least a hint, but you have to find out the perfect match by yourself.

+1 on that!

My favorite guitar is a Jeremy Ledford replica with a Kahler and a big ol' humbucker in the bridge position, what sounds good for that guitar would part yer hair with a normal Srat and that doesn't begin to address what happens when you plug a Tele with fresh strings in.

It's all subjective. SO subjective! The real question is do you want to compete with the Hong Kong hi-fi guys and pay $125 for a smooth plate Telefunken just to check it out? Everyone seems to think there's some magic tube out there that will make your JTM45 into a JCM800, that "magic tube" doesn't exist!

I ought to set up a booth at guitar shows where you can rent my Telefunkens for $5 for five minutes so you can see if they do it for you!

nomad100 · Post by **nomad100** » Fri 01/12/07 5:09 pm

i like JJ tubes I have a mesa nomad100. I can't comment on the mesa 12AX7 verses JJ because the pretubes were shot when i bought the amp. GC sent me new mesa power tubes, and the were so sterile vs the JJ's. I have all JJ tubes in it now and get complement after complement on my tone.

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Do tubes make the amp?