Fender Buys Groove Tubes - What's the impact

[Brewmaster]

With Fender purchasing Groove Tubes I wonder what impact there will be on supply and quality down the road.
GT bought lots of tubes from other sources such as Shugaung so I wonder.
Fender tubes were mainly GT which were overstamps to begin with.

I wonder what impact this will have on guys like KCA and Dougs tubes that sell a ton of current production stuff.

[pjb]

With Fender purchasing Groove Tubes I wonder what impact there will be on supply and quality down the road.
GT bought lots of tubes from other sources such as Shugaung so I wonder.
Fender tubes were mainly GT which were overstamps to begin with.

I wonder what impact this will have on guys like KCA and Dougs tubes that sell a ton of current production stuff.

The impact is hopefully that Fender Musical Instruments Inc., gets exclusivity with Pitman's overrated, overpriced BS industry. And with any luck we will never see them on the shelves again and will never have to put up with child-like-salesmen at the big box stores trying to explain how the Grove Tubes system is a far superior matching system... so is worth double what every other tube costs.

Legal notice: This is only my independent opinion and does not reflect the views of 18 watt.com or it's proprietors.
-Paul

[Alexo]

I think the impact will be Shuguangs overstamped with "Groove Tubes," overstamped with "Fender," resulting in completely illegible tubes.


What they should do is buy a real tube company and have them come out with a NEW TUBE for the first time in decades, then anyone who buys their amps will have no choice but to use their patented KT84V6WA83S.

[Merlinb]

The impact is hopefully that Fender Musical Instruments Inc., gets exclusivity with Pitman's overrated, overpriced BS industry.

+1 Amen to that!
I couldn't give a hoot if Groove Tubes carries on, or disappears off the map. As long as the factories keep going, I don't care who's fancy label is plastered over the top.

[pjb]

I think the impact will be Shuguangs overstamped with "Groove Tubes," overstamped with "Fender," resulting in completely illegible tubes.


What they should do is buy a real tube company and have them come out with a NEW TUBE for the first time in decades, then anyone who buys their amps will have no choice but to use their patented KT84V6WA83S.

The kiss of death for a real tube manufacturer (you know... the ones that actually make the tubes) is to be bought by a corner-cutting company like Fender who trim the length of AC power cords to save money. I would never want to see a precious industry like tube making infiltrated by salesmen.

Any company who makes transistor/IC amps have obvious less interest or commitment to what you or I actually want right? And I'm not singling out FMIC the same would apply to Marshall/Peavey/Trace/Crate... actually Hartley Peavey once said he wished he could stop building tube amps, and actually, if he could he would do so. Well they say "be careful what you wish for" and personally I hope his wish comes true.

-Paul

[markh]

I think the impact will be Shuguangs overstamped with "Groove Tubes," overstamped with "Fender," resulting in completely illegible tubes.

hahahaha

Whether you like Aspen P. or not, one sad fact is the guys that have been working for him in SoCal for years or decades are all going to get sh*t-canned when FMIC moves production to somewhere like Mexico.

--mark

[morcey2]

I think the impact will be Shuguangs overstamped with "Groove Tubes," overstamped with "Fender," resulting in completely illegible tubes.

If they can line up the printing just right, you'll end up with 'Shuoouauegser' tubes. Sounds like a winner to me. (Although, the Shuguang KT66's are awfully nice).

[IronPlant]

actually Hartley Peavey once said he wished he could stop building tube amps, and actually, if he could he would do so. Well they say "be careful what you wish for" and personally I hope his wish comes true.

-Paul

what exactly are you getting at there? It would be a shame if Peavey stopped making tube amps. For a long time, they were the cheapest tube amp alternative for kids that wanted to buy new.

[pjb]

actually Hartley Peavey once said he wished he could stop building tube amps, and actually, if he could he would do so. Well they say "be careful what you wish for" and personally I hope his wish comes true.

-Paul

what exactly are you getting at there? It would be a shame if Peavey stopped making tube amps. For a long time, they were the cheapest tube amp alternative for kids that wanted to buy new.

How seriously can you take a mission statement from a corporation that said they resented having to make tube amps? Or for that matter how seriously can you take any of the bragging. If they said "great amps for kids" then I'd be down with it. But they don't. I believe "First Act" are doing that. I just dislike corporations, especially ones that shout their misdirected mouths off. But I digressed so I apologize... let's not hijack the thread.

-Paul

[pylet2000]

I suspect we'll notice no impact whatsoever, because I'm doubting any of the crafters on this board used GT to begin with.

I suspect Fender will save a few dollars per amp, so from a business standpoint it makes sense. Fender corporate has been in the acquisitions business for a long time now, oh, and they also make guitars and amps once in a while.

It's easy to hate companies for being companies, but they are in the business of making money, not making legends. You gotta go to the boutique guys that are passionate about making art to get things done right. Fender, Peavey, etc... are passionate about profit and shareholders. They serve a purpose though. They employ a lot of people, who hopefully go out and buy things made by the kind of folks we want to support.

[IronPlant]

How seriously can you take a mission statement from a corporation that said they resented having to make tube amps? Or for that matter how seriously can you take any of the bragging. If they said "great amps for kids" then I'd be down with it. But they don't. I believe "First Act" are doing that. I just dislike corporations, especially ones that shout their misdirected mouths off. But I digressed so I apologize... let's not hijack the thread.

-Paul

Mr. Peavey probably said what he said because of the fact that his company was one of the first to use solid state technology in a helpful way for musicians (power amps and PA equipment). I could see something that made such a positive impact making someone biased.

And for what it is worth, I think actions speak louder than words. For someone that claims to not want to put out tube amps, they sure put out a whole lot of new tube designs. Most of which are affordable to most adult musicians.

[pylet2000]

Well said KennyO.

I guess it's time for everybody to start buying up what's soon to be NOS Pre-Fender Groove Tubes, eh? You'll wish you had when they are worth 10 times as much... Ha, I couldn't keep a straight face through that sentence!

And if I remeber correctly, the three logo thing has happened with Fender tubes before. I want to say that the early Deluxe Reverb reissue came with Fender branded Groove Tubes, that had an EH logo on them to begin with.

[darthalal]

Well said KennyO.

I guess it's time for everybody to start buying up what's soon to be NOS Pre-Fender Groove Tubes, eh? You'll wish you had when they are worth 10 times as much... Ha, I couldn't keep a straight face through that sentence!

And if I remeber correctly, the three logo thing has happened with Fender tubes before. I want to say that the early Deluxe Reverb reissue came with Fender branded Groove Tubes, that had an EH logo on them to begin with.

The tubes in my Pro Jr were actually Fender rebranded GrooveTube rebranded Sovteks I wish I still had it I'd post a pic...

[Dana-L]

Well said KennyO.

Yup.

-Dana

[rjgtr]

Love or hate Groove Tubes, they elevated the understanding of musicians on the importance of buying good tubes. Including the advantages of matching tubes and biasing. Before GT was around most guys just went down to the local Radio Shack or Drug Store and bought some 6L6s and just popped them in. Sure that works, but an amp works better when the tubes are at least somewhat matched. Even though you can realistically be 10ma out, more than that and some of the tubes will wear faster.

They also worked with most of the existing tube factories to improve the quality of tubes available. And sure you paid for it, but then again to didn't have to.

I don't use a lot of GT stuff these days, but they really contributed to the quality of the tubes we get today. I just hope Fender doesn't mess them up.

[pylet2000]

Love or hate Groove Tubes, they elevated the understanding of musicians on the importance of buying good tubes. Including the advantages of matching tubes and biasing. Before GT was around most guys just went down to the local Radio Shack or Drug Store and bought some 6L6s and just popped them in. Sure that works, but an amp works better when the tubes are at least somewhat matched. Even though you can realistically be 10ma out, more than that and some of the tubes will wear faster.

They also worked with most of the existing tube factories to improve the quality of tubes available. And sure you paid for it, but then again to didn't have to.

I don't use a lot of GT stuff these days, but they really contributed to the quality of the tubes we get today. I just hope Fender doesn't mess them up.

Another set of excellent points. Even though we don't think they have the right idea in the tube realm, they are at least helping to continue the tube amp. Fighting the good fight, you know?

[rjgtr]

The biggest issue I have with GT, besides the 'Name Brand Pricing' is also the voodoo matching. The method they use to match has some validity (matching for distortion), but then again just using current draw works fine too. Plus all tubes become more unmatched with wear.

But then again everybody else seems to have a fancy name for matching tubes, when it isn't that mysterious. But how many of us want to buy 40 tubes to find 14 pairs that match?

It's a service, and like any service the guy with the name charges the most.

[Phil_S]

I'm still pissed that Fender halted production of all Guild electric guitars. IMO, the last ones made in Westerly, RI weren't the greatest, but they had good consistency, good fit and finish. and were, IMO better and cost less compared to what Gibson makes. AFAIK, they tried making them in CA, but pulled the plug on that.

I think Kenny O said it as well as anyone could.

[Diablo]

Love or hate Groove Tubes, they elevated the understanding of musicians on the importance of buying good tubes. Including the advantages of matching tubes and biasing. Before GT was around most guys just went down to the local Radio Shack or Drug Store and bought some 6L6s and just popped them in.

I'd rather be able to go down to the drugstore and buy brand new RCA tubes than matched GT.