Any current AX7's VERY close to old (80's) chinese?

lovedat800 · Post by **lovedat800** » Mon 08/25/08 5:13 pm

Remember in the 80's and early to mid 90's how most all AX7's you'd see in new amps were always those chinese with the square foil getters? Well, i'm about out of them after all these years and they've always been a staple of mine in marshall style amps. Does anyone make one today that sounds just like them?

cGil · Post by **cGil** » Mon 08/25/08 6:10 pm

Sovtek WA's have the same gain structure that gets my 18watt's tremolo rolling like I want, but lacks the bright edginess of the Chinese 12ax7.
There are still 12ax7's coming out of China. Haven't bothered to look for internal physical changes over the years.

I do know that Mesa was big on Chinese preamp tubes back in the 90's, and probably still are. Might want to root around through some of their dustier rebaggers. Should be plenty of 'em gathering dust somewhere. I mean think about it... Who rotates that kinda stock anyway?

However, I've still got a few 90's era Mesa pulls (need 'em for my 18watt trem channel, sorry) and they sound pretty much the same to me, and with the same apparent gain level as some new Chinese 12ax7's that I recently got. I wouldn't expect much has changed, but your ears may be more finicky than mine. YMMV Try a couple new ones if you haven't already.

Gil...

lovedat800 · Post by **lovedat800** » Mon 08/25/08 8:46 pm

AFAIK the factory that made the tubes i'm referring to is gone and the only thing the new chinese tubes have in common with then is country of origin. So trying the new chinese tubes would be sorta like buing a VW bug in hopes it's just like your last car, a BMW. There may be other tubes i like more, but the reason i want these is 1)-i really don't want to get into another buying frenzy trying to find what i like only to find i wasted $20, 30, 50 or more. And 2)- i built and tweaked this amp around them, so theres a good chance this amp will sound better with them than most other tubes. Does anyone know what they are called? For example, the new chinese ones are called Shuguang. (name of company actually) I need a name to search with. Just searching for 12ax7 chinese gets far too many unrelated hits.

Post by **rjgtr** » Tue 08/26/08 7:57 pm

Have you tried the shuguang's? They are good tubes and I've found them to be reliable. I like to use them for PIs and cathode followers.

The other very nice new production are the New Sensor Tung Sols. JJ's are also reliable new production.

You could also try some NOS dealers like Sgt Overdrive (also known as tube tramp) or KCA NOS tubes and see if they have some old supplies of the older 80s Chinese.

kleuck · Post by **kleuck** » Wed 08/27/08 4:46 am

Hello
I don't know for the "chinese sound" (i used to have chinese tubes in my VC30, but they were from the 70'S), but i tested a lot of new production 12AX7, and there is (if you are looking for a vintage dynamic three dimensionnal sound) two clear winners : JJ ECC803S, and Tung-Sol Ri, wich are now my favorites.

cGil · Post by **cGil** » Wed 08/27/08 2:45 pm

Well, you got me curious enough to go take a close look at what's in the old bucket. Turns out I only have one Mesa STR 12ax7-A tube left! Well, they did seem to have a tendency to go microphonic on me. Do BMW's still break down a lot, too?

But this old Mesa tube is indeed quite different from all the new Chinese 12ax7 and 12ax7B tubes I have floating around. And different from everything else in my box, too!

The old Chinese/Mesa STR tube has long vertical plates and a large getter halo in the top, but the new Chinese tubes have short plates with shiny clips (about half that length of the Mesa tube) with a third horizontal section of clear plastic (?) at the top, and a smaller getter halo above that. Curiously, I was surprised to notice that the EH 12ax7 has plates that are a smidgen longer then the new Chinese tubes. I assumed the EH tubes were just rebagged Sovtek WA's, but nooooo!

The Sovtek 12ax7WA and WXT+ plates are actually a little shorter than the new Chinese tubes. The WXT+ also has a (smoky) clear extra top similar to the new Chinese tubes (the smoky stuff may be cathode dust) Conversely, the Sovtek 12ax7LPS has long plates that are about the exact same size and shape as the old Chinese/Mesa STR, but they're solid with 3 ridges and no visible holes. And it's got a small getter halo.

The JJ ECC83S is very different from all, with plates a smidgen longer than Sovtek WA's, but shorter than the new Chinese tubes. And the JJ has a third horizontal top section, but it's a solid plate of metal and connected to the large getter halo above that. (double getter, get it?)

So anyway, if you simply MUST have the old Chinese tubes, check your local Mom and Pop guitar shop for old Mesa 12ax7's. Thanks to Mesa distributor policies and pricing, there a heck of a lot of former Mesa dealers around that still have Mesa tubes in their bins long after their Mesa amps have disappeared.

Just take a peek at the innards. Should be easy to tell the old from the new. Surely the store clerks will let you do that before they demand to see your money. Especially if you're mumbling something laden with unintelligible expletives about not paying for broken glass ever again.

Gil...

lovedat800 · Post by **lovedat800** » Wed 08/27/08 5:11 pm

I found 5 of them yesterday in a drawer i totally forgot about ! 3 are mesas too. anyways, that'll probably last me for life

EDIT: by the way, i really would love to try one of those tung sol RI's and have been meaning to, but the few times i ordered parts including just the other day (starting a new marshall 50...sold last one to a buddy) i always forget to add one to the order. I can't find them locally, and shipping makes it too expensive for one tube unless i add it to another order.

demonufo · Post by **demonufo** » Fri 08/29/08 3:56 pm

Pretty sure I've got three moderately used mesa's around somewhere if you get desperate.

dotfret · Post by **dotfret** » Sun 08/31/08 7:16 pm

I recognise the description - you want the Billington Gold 12AX7, to save a lot of confusion. www.bel-tubes.co.uk
- Whatever, I can probably sell you a few with less hassle than trying to meet the minimum order requirements.

lovedat800 · Post by **lovedat800** » Mon 09/01/08 10:16 am

Thanks guys, but the ones i found will do me fine probably for life. (i'm old, don't gig anymore, etc) besides, it's not that i think these are my fav AX7's, only that they are my fav of the ones i've used. So i'm sure in time i will try those tung sols and maybe some others and find a new fav from what i've been hearing about them.
Funny thing is, i tried the GT mullard clones several years back when my only amp was a classic 30 and i felt they were the best AX7 i ever tried. Turns out i tried them since in several amps including my own builds and i hated them in everything but the C30 ! I've always found that whenever i found a tube i liked they seemed to sound as good to me no matter what amp i put them in. Not so with the GT M's. Odd...

Brewmaster · Post by **Brewmaster** » Mon 09/01/08 11:05 am

lovedat800 wrote:Funny thing is, i tried the GT mullard clones several years back when my only amp was a classic 30 and i felt they were the best AX7 i ever tried. Turns out i tried them since in several amps including my own builds and i hated them in everything but the C30 ! I've always found that whenever i found a tube i liked they seemed to sound as good to me no matter what amp i put them in. Not so with the GT M's. Odd...

You are not alone, I had the same exact experience with the GT M's.
I still have a few new in the box but since my Classic 30 is gone and I don't care for them in my 18's they will probably end up being hot NOS tubes in 30 years.

Donations

Links

Welcome

Any current AX7's VERY close to old (80's) chinese?

Any current AX7's VERY close to old (80's) chinese?