Your evaluation of distortion characteristics on NOS tubes?

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BDC
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Your evaluation of distortion characteristics on NOS tubes?

Post by BDC »

I'm a fan of the JJ el-84 tube. I have tryed EI and Sovtek as well but thought the JJ had a more dynamic,detailed blossoming distortion, if you
will. I would like evaluations from builders and tube afficianados here where tone matters......Phil Zaphod? I know your about the distortion!

I have in the past communicated with Terry Kilgore, who seemed fair, very opinionated and maybe eccentric even. I have come away believing he's more about the clean sound and durability. It seems to me this is how he determines quality of tubes. Durability is important to me, but I'm much more about the distorted sound. I have much respect for Terry but I think we might be coming from different places.

Terry at the time was offering up Russion RFTs and I think Sylvanias, heavily touting both. I would like some thoughts on particular brands and they're distortion characteristics using the JJ as the comparison.
Tubes I'd like to hear about would be-RFTs-Sylvanias-Teslas-Siemans-RCA-Tung Sol-Mullards or any tube anybody feels is needs mention.
Whats a good buy-whats the holy grail? Remember full blossoming detailed distortion is the goal......I do recognaize that the bias range of the tube plays a role,so please include any pertinant commentary on this...
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Post by zaphod_phil »

I'm not able to help here much. I mainly use NOS tubes, and most of them are Mullard. I have a few others, such as Brimar, Philips JAN, RCA and even NOS Sovtek. But I've never taken time to do detailed comparisons. The Mullards sound sweet and smooth and have a good tonal balance, which works for me, so I mainly use them in my own amps. Many people say Mullards are the "Holy Grail", others say Telefunken are, and Siemens are also close. I've also never heard a single complaint about Terry Kilgore's recommendations. I'm not sure why you think he's only into cleans, as his own music style (he was Dave Lee Roth's guitarist) requires lots of gain and distortion.

BTW Watford Valves in the UK publishes some pretty good tone test reports - www.watfordvalves.com/reports.asp
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Post by rjgtr »

zaphod_phil wrote:I'm not able to help here much. I mainly use NOS tubes, and most of them are Mullard.
Ok. I'm still massively jealous! I only have a few precious Mullard ECC83S and a Rectifier here and there ...
BDC wrote: ... RFTs-Sylvanias-Teslas-Siemans-RCA-Tung Sol-Mullards ...
My thoughts ...

RFT - These can be a lot things; RFT relabelled and used different factories. Most RFTs I've seen are eastern European and are good tubes, but have a slightly softer vacuum which makes them distort easier. The 12ax7s are great when overdriven, but not the cleanest tube. I haven't seen the EL84s.

Sylvanias-I haven't used their EL84s, but the 12ax7s I've used are very robust and clear. Great in american style amps.

Teslas-For runner of JJs and very good sounding.

Siemans-I have used their EL-34s, not EL-84s. The EL-34s are a very solid tube, so I'd expect the EL84s to be great too.


RCA-A very very good tube. Very American sounding and full.

Tung Sol - (I assume you mean NOS) I haven't heard these, but TungSol was one of the high quality tube makers. The new non-NOS ones are made by Sovtek and are probably pretty good if the 12ax7s are any indication, but for new production, I like the JJs best.

Mullards - THE TUBE. Just the perfect tone and balance. The EL84s and ECC83s (12ax7) are IT. The sound is there if you want that classic British ROCK sound. Yummy.

Brimars - I have used the 12ax7s and 6V6s and they are great European sounding tubes. The 6V6s have a great bark not found in their American counterparts. Great for a low powered plexi sound. I haven't heard Brimar EL84s, but I would expect they'd just be a notch below the Mullards and have great tone.
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Post by zaphod_phil »

rjgtr wrote:Ok. I'm still massively jealous! I only have a few precious Mullard ECC83S and a Rectifier here and there ...
I managed to make some opportune purchases while I was living in the UK. :D
rjgtr wrote:Teslas-For runner of JJs and very good sounding.
I forgot - I have tried those in the past and was very pleased. They were labeled as Watford Valves' own-brand Harma STR EL84s. Great tubes for distortion. :D
rjgtr wrote:Brimars - I have used the 12ax7s and 6V6s and they are great European sounding tubes. The 6V6s have a great bark not found in their American counterparts. Great for a low powered plexi sound. I haven't heard Brimar EL84s, but I would expect they'd just be a notch below the Mullards and have great tone.
To me JJ 6V6s seem to have better definition than the Brimar ones. However, Brimar used to relabel a bunch of different manufacters' tubes as their own. So we could be talking about different Brimar 6V6s here. I also have one or two Brimar 12AX7s, *identical* in construction to my Mullard "ladder-plate" ECC83s. But they don't have a Mullard/Philips production code anywhere on the glass, which really puzzles me. And the tone is more aggressive than the identical-looking Mullards... :?
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BDC
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Post by BDC »

I'm pretty familiar with the variations on 12 ax7s.......Hey Rgtr When you said American sounding, do you mid mean lower mid emphasis and CLEAN? Thats what it typically means to me. I have never tryed an American EL84........Your comments on Teslas are very helpful........Would you say that they clearly sound better than JJs......Terry really had nothing good to say about JJs....Which I think are great. How do the Teslas stack up against the Mullards?
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Post by zaphod_phil »

BDC wrote:.....Terry really had nothing good to say about JJs....Which I think are great.
Terry just hates current production tubes. That's all. :lol: He's totally a NOS guy, and he knows where to find some great tubes at very reasonable prices. He might even be able to get you some genuine Teslas.

My experience with JJ 12AX7s is that their tone is good, with warm mids, but they lack some clarity compared to good NOS tubes.
Last edited by zaphod_phil on Tue 03/03/09 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Alexo »

I bought a pair of RFT's from the Tube Store. They are great tubes, very full and "big tube" sounding with a nice smooth top end that doesn't stab your ears the way EL84's can. *Almost* a little like a 6V6 in character. I think Syl's are great in guitar amps, very crunchy breakup, *almost* a little 6L6-ish, since I seem to be describing the sonics by comparing to other tubes... My faves are my old Toshibas, very "musical," whatever that means, I don't know... just a nice balance with a lack of offensiveness across the spectrum. The closest to an EL34 out of these. Supposedly Toshiba's plants were set up with Mullard equipment or specs or something.... JJ's are very good tubes, imo, but don't have quite the classic vibe, which is a little rounder, imo.


I do have one Mullard and one Telefunken EL84, I've thought about throwing the mismatched pair in an 18, wonder how that would sound...
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Post by BDC »

Reflektor 6P14P-EB (EV) - 1980s MINT NOS NIB Russian Military aka EL84M --------Anybody tryed these? 10.00 each at "Tubemonger"
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Post by rjgtr »

Phil I have a few different sets and singles of the Brimars and they are different. The best is almost like a little EL34 in character. The lesser sounding ones just aren't as clear.
BDC wrote:I'm pretty familiar with the variations on 12 ax7s.......Hey Rgtr When you said American sounding, do you mid mean lower mid emphasis and CLEAN? Thats what it typically means to me. I have never tryed an American EL84........
Yes a generally lower mid emphasis. Kindof like the difference between Emglish EL34s and the American 6CA7.
Your comments on Teslas are very helpful........Would you say that they clearly sound better than JJs......
They're not that different, but I seem to remember the Teslas being a little more full. But honestly, I'm quite happy with JJs,
Terry really had nothing good to say about JJs....Which I think are great.
Terry seems to like a different thing than I do. He sent me some GE EL84s which he loves. They sounded good but just a little too smooth. I like EL84s to have some edge to them. I honestly do like JJs and Ei EL84s, too. I like the Eis more in a Vox style amp than an 18watt.
How do the Teslas stack up against the Mullards?
It's been a long time since I've heard NOS Mullard EL84s, but I would expect they'd sound just a little better than the Teslas. I've never heard a NOS Mullard that wasn't three dimensional.
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