Mullard RI 12AX7s (Paging ZP)

[neon333]

Hey Phil,
You have said (in a post I cannot find) that you like the NS Mullard 12ax7 reissues...
Which spot V1...V2...V3?

Pax

[zaphod_phil]

All of them if possible V1 at the very least - with JJs for the rest.

[kd]

Phil,

How would you say they stack up against NOS Blackburn Mullards?

Ken

[WaZaK]

OK, so I'm only pretending to be Phil .....
I'm pretty impressed with the latest run of New Sensor Mullards. I bought a full set from Tube Depot just to try in my SuperLite, and replaced a set of EH tubes I have been trying.
Unfortunately my Blackburns are OOS (Lol) but are still very good. Maybe the OOS have mellowed slightly with age - because the NSM tubes seem slightly brighter - but not sharp/nasty brighter - and only by a *very* small increment.
Put it this way: IMHO the Russians have really got their act together, and there is no way I would pay silly money for NOS Mullards (12AX7 and EL84, that is) having tried the current issue. I may go up as far as dollar each extra for the NOS "snob" value if I was selling the amp!
I can't believe how fat and crisp my LiteIIb sounds with Mullards (new or old). But maybe I just didn't realise how bad the old sovtek/jj combination sounded! Lolol.

[zaphod_phil]

I haven't yet got round to doing an A/B test between my vintage NOS Mullard 12AX7s and the New Sensor fake ones. The amps I put the modern fake Mullards into had to be shipped out to paying customers, and the NOS tubes are inside my own amps. I will agree with WaZak that the immediate impression I got was that the new ones were a little brighter sounding than the vintage ones, but not harsh at all. I will have to do some A/B testing in the next couple of amps I've started building.

[kd]

Thanks for the input guys. I only have 4 or 5 NOS Mullards left and prices are so high now I can't afford anymore. I'll give the New Sensor Mullards a try at some point.

Most people seem to like the reissue Tung-Sol 12ax7 but they just don't sound right to me in my Marshall clones. With my guitars, speakers and amps they seem brighter than I like.

I have purchased a couple of ANOS RFT tubes and really like them in Marshall type amps. Also, the price is still reasonable.

Ken

[rjgtr]

Thanks for the input guys. I only have 4 or 5 NOS Mullards left and prices are so high now I can't afford anymore. I'll give the New Sensor Mullards a try at some point.

Most people seem to like the reissue Tung-Sol 12ax7 but they just don't sound right to me in my Marshall clones. With my guitars, speakers and amps they seem brighter than I like.

I like the NS TungSols in V1 of a Plexi style amp sometimes, but they seem to be better in a Fender blackface style amp.

I have purchased a couple of ANOS RFT tubes and really like them in Marshall type amps. Also, the price is still reasonable.

Ken

I still prefer a European tube in Marshalls, especially 18watts. NOS Brimar, Tungsram, Phillips, RFT and especially NOS Mullards are my favorites. I got some of the fake Mullards to try, but haven't had a chance yet.

[WaZaK]

NOS Mullard prices are so high now I can't afford anymore.

If I felt they were that much better than new issue, I'd find the pennies (lots of them!) but at this point I simply can't justify the (significant) extra cost.
Maybe it's just me, but if my ears don't lie, folks just won't buy the NOS any more.
But with dwindling supplies and some purist fanboys to pay silly money, I doubt prices will fall.

[zaphod_phil]

I sometimes lurk around on eBay and find good pulled Mullards where the bidding isn't going too high. Otherwise, you can get some pretty keen NOS prices from Terry Kilgore (aka Sgt Overdrive/Tube Tramp).

[GUITARmole]

Most people seem to like the reissue Tung-Sol 12ax7 but they just don't sound right to me in my Marshall clones. With my guitars, speakers and amps they seem brighter than I like.

Those are my exact observations! I prefer the JJs (which can sometimes sound too dark) or the Chinese preamp tubes if I'm going new manufacture.

[zaphod_phil]

After trying the new fake Mullards, the JJs just seemed to be too blurry in the mids. You should try these Mullards. I also agree about the new fake Tung Sols. They're just too bright,

[insanecopilot]

I thought the new mullard reissues were glorified EHX. Btw tung sol 12ax7 look almost identical to EHX 12ax7's too....... one Sovtek many names...I cant really find a new 12ax7 that i really like in my SE builds, NOS is too expensive So i have been gutting out old hammond and baldwin organs for tubes. Found a couple of RCA black plate d getters that i really like in my 18watt tmb lite by that method.

[BDC]

OK, so I'm only pretending to be Phil .....
I'm pretty impressed with the latest run of New Sensor Mullards. I bought a full set from Tube Depot just to try in my SuperLite, and replaced a set of EH tubes I have been trying.
Unfortunately my Blackburns are OOS (Lol) but are still very good. Maybe the OOS have mellowed slightly with age - because the NSM tubes seem slightly brighter - but not sharp/nasty brighter - and only by a *very* small increment.
Put it this way: IMHO the Russians have really got their act together, and there is no way I would pay silly money for NOS Mullards (12AX7 and EL84, that is) having tried the current issue. I may go up as far as dollar each extra for the NOS "snob" value if I was selling the amp!
I can't believe how fat and crisp my LiteIIb sounds with Mullards (new or old). But maybe I just didn't realise how bad the old sovtek/jj combination sounded! Lolol.

Wow quite an endorsement.......I've been a longtime fan of the JJ el84 and the EH12ax7.......less thrilled about jj12ax7s
May have to try the NS.......Wazak which el 84 are you refering to in this post..? Russian? I've tryed the Sovtek and much preffered the JJ..but that was about 5 years ago..been very happy with jjel84 tone but am always open to an affordable upgrade.
This 12ax7 is endorsed by Phil too.....Huh......interesting-----Phil willing to endorse any new el84s?

[insanecopilot]

It seems the Mullard 12ax7 is a re branded sovtek LPS. Which is a good tube.

[zaphod_phil]

The new fake Mullards appear to have the same kind of "ladderplate" electrode construction as my vintage Mullard and Brimar ECC83s. Is that also the case with the Sovtek LPS? If so, maybe the LPS was an earlier attempt at cloning Mullards...

[WaZaK]

which el 84 are you refering to in this post..? Russian?

Correct - the New Sensor "Reflektor" production.
Having tried NS in the past and felt that all the original feel was left behind at the respective originating factories, it seems clear to me that someone at NS has been trying hard to make genuine "reissues" rather than crappy valves with a good name - which they clearly did after acquiring several brand names!
But I guess that an audio analysis of the current NS production will make me out to be full of BS - but I don't listen with an analyser: I use ears!
So if a theoretical purist wants to argue with me - don't bother!

It seems the Mullard 12ax7 is a re branded sovtek LPS.

Being contrary to my current understanding, I'd be interested to know the source of that information.
Not having an LPS on hand I cannot compare the two for any similarities.
I have just researched online, but cannot find any curent information. (Most info I found seems out of date or seemingly unsubstantiated and/or based on opinion.)
I was recently lead to believe from a previously reliable source, that the Mullard tube is now completely manufactured at a new line in New Sensor's Xpo-Pul factory (also known as The Reflektor Plant) in Saratov. I am aware of a considerable amount of Russian rebranding (as indeed the old tube companies did) but not currently with the Mullard.
I could be misinformed. Please update me.

[zaphod_phil]

Well, like I just said....

The new fake Mullards appear to have the same kind of "ladderplate" electrode construction as my vintage Mullard and Brimar ECC83s.

Maybe someone should do some A/B testing between the Sovtek LPS and NS "Mullard".

[WaZaK]

Well, like I just said....

Sorry ZP - I was either writing or researching in response when you posted. I missed the comment.

[cGil]

Interesting to note that Sovtek's 12ax7LPS was around before New Sensor's acquisition of the Mullard brand. If the LPS really is that similar in construction to both the NOS and the new fake RI Mullards, it makes me wonder if...

A) the LPS wasn't just blatant design plagiarism to begin with, and
B) the purchase of the Mullard brand avoided a lawsuit over it, and
C) the sellers of the Mullard brand used the windfall to resurrect the old Mullard factory.

3 degrees of separation? Or simple cause and effect?

Gil...

[WaZaK]

simple cause and effect?

The whole business smells as fishy as Grimsby Docks!

Without any direct reference to TechTube - but in clear response to the launch of the new company, a 2008 NS (shareholder's) letter suggested that NS's intention was to get the products right and make "Mullard" their flagship. This is in spite of the fact the NS acknowledges the admission that TechTube have no intention of attempting to create "Vintage" tubes. Perhaps it was just the thought of the word "Blackburn" being used that rattled cages.

As I understand it, the new Reflektor line was to achieve that end.

However, what I have been unable to grasp, is why the "Mullard" brand has been licensed to NS everywhere but in the EU, and that details of the design license are conspicuous by their absence! Is this just coincidence? Is Phillips (who took over Mullard Research) still in the frame? Even though tubes are considered by some on Wall Street and The City to be a "small but steady market", I personally doubt it.

In reality I don't give a rats a*s as long as somebody makes good recreations / reproductions of the old Mullards. But we do now know it won't be TubeTech.