Absolute best tubes for LiteIIB

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timbo_93631
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Post by timbo_93631 »

I got my replacement set of Mullard 12 AX7's today. They are pretty gainy, I think that is the real problem trying to run them in an 18 watt tremolo build. My lead dress is really neat, have extensively chopsticked the wires for optimal positioning, but I still get a thud thud thud in the background with the tremolo engaged. Swapping V2 for a Groovetubes Sovetek, GDS kit sopplied China, or NOS GE, solves the problem. In fact it is best if I only use the Mullard 12AX7 for V3. I am gonna save them for my next build, a TMB. I think they will be great for that. All of this has left me wondering if I shouldn't try a 12AY7 or 12AT7 for V2. Any thoughts?
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krx
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Post by krx »

timbo_93631 wrote:All of this has left me wondering if I shouldn't try a 12AY7 or 12AT7 for V2. Any thoughts?
Bad idea (especially the 12AT7), in my opinion, but it won't hurt anything to try it, especially if you already have the tubes.
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Post by zaphod_phil »

For the thumping check out Richie's tremelo mods. I also don't see how changing V2, the PI tube, would help with tremolo problems. Also putting a lower gain tube in the PI will reduce the amp's classic 18W overdrive. Some folks like that, but the amp will no longer be true to the Marshall 18W tone and vibe.
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timbo_93631
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Post by timbo_93631 »

The amp in question is a Richie's improved tremolo - somewhat. I decided I would rather build richie's circuit so I sold the GDS board that came with my kit and picked up a richie's trem double turret from Ken Watts at Watts Tube Audio. I built to the layout in the download section, but after playing it awhile I decided I'd like the top end of the tremolo level to be more agressive, and I'd like more speed at the top too.
timbo_93631 wrote: ... I built it with the improved tremolo circuit because I thought the trem speed on the 1974x I played at GC was too fast, on my build it seems too slow. I'd ideally like to be somewhere in the middle. Also the intensity of the tremolo effect seems really low too. It seems like I have to switch to the off position then turn it on with the intensity control turned down, then bring up the level to get it going. When it is at full intensity it seems like it is going full volume to half volume, not as drastic as the on-off-on-off effect should be...
Plexi wrote:If its too slow,and you have a .022 for C8.. try a .015. Also if you have a 2.7Meg resistor..try a 2.2Meg in its place.. this should speed it up a little.
even without changing the .022 for C8.. changing the 2.7M to a 2.2Meg.will speed the trm up just a little., or vice versa.. just change the cap to a .015

I made the changes on the trem,so when you rolled the intensity all the way down,the trem would stop.. to get it going the intensity has to be rolled up some.. Also try a few tubes for the trem..
After making these changes I only got half of what I was looking for. The intensity is better, but the speed control didn't really change. And then there is the thud thud thud. Like I said, using a different tube for V2 seems to clear it up. I am wondering if I should go back to the 2 Meg pot for the speed control as I have changed back to the stock C and R values. Sorry to hijack the thread.
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blackjack
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Post by blackjack »

Not a problem :D Hope you have learned as much as I have on these forums! :)
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Post by FireLewis »

Hi Guys,

Just to mention TAD (tube amp doctor). I try their 12ax7 and love them. A little bit dark but can be a good match witch 18 watt brighty power section. They sound (to my ear) more rich/full then JJ's or EH but I loved the JJ and EH too. I have 2 Mullard reissue (12ax7) one is sound a bit microphonic and the other is ok. I found some similaritys with mullard and TAD but the mullard are less dark maybe a bit more articulated.

I didn't try enough all those tubes, I've just built my first 18 watt 2 weeks ago. But I just wanna mention that TAD are great. In my JCM 800 they sound awesome. Give it a try.

Lewis.
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Post by Brewmaster »

FireLewis wrote:Hi Guys,

Just to mention TAD (tube amp doctor). I try their 12ax7 and love them. A little bit dark but can be a good match witch 18 watt brighty power section. They sound (to my ear) more rich/full then JJ's or EH but I loved the JJ and EH too. I have 2 Mullard reissue (12ax7) one is sound a bit microphonic and the other is ok. I found some similaritys with mullard and TAD but the mullard are less dark maybe a bit more articulated.

I didn't try enough all those tubes, I've just built my first 18 watt 2 weeks ago. But I just wanna mention that TAD are great. In my JCM 800 they sound awesome. Give it a try.

Lewis.
The TAD 12ax7 Tubes are selected chinese 12ax7's. I understand they filter out the noisiest ones.
I like the EH, it has a nice gain structure and a little more high end, a brighter tube overall. They add more clarity to a high gain amp.
I now have several Mullard RI 12ax7's. To the eye they look like a Sovetk LPS which IMHO is the best of the Sovteks. I have to check them out further. I'm undecided on them.

FYI, I find the Chinese 12ax7B to be less noisy and lower gain than the Chinese 12ax7A. They might be your answer for the PI in the 18 Trem.
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Post by dotfret »

12AX7B selected to be lower gain and lower noise than 12AX7A.

And 12AX7C is supposed to be even lower gain and lower noise.
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blackjack
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Post by blackjack »

Does anyone know about or like/dislike the NOS GE el84 tubes?
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jgab
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Post by jgab »

Try NOS (or good testing used) General Electric 12ax7 tubes. The new production tubes I have tried just don't stack up to the old stuff.


I do blind taste tests to determine what my ears like without knowing the tube I try. Everyone should do things this way so you avoid the NOS hype.

I have tried Telefunken (Germany), RCA (USA), Valvo (H. Germany) that all test great, and they all sound great, but for the money, you won't be disappointed with General Electric.

The GE 12ax7 are still found at a good price and sound great.

I use old Mullard EL84 tubes and they are great.

As long as the EZ81 is functional and tests strong all is well.

Edit: The above findings are from my Lite 2b. Different amplifier models may have different results. Long and short plates are personal preference. Some people say long plates sound better, but they can also be more microphonic. I have used about a dozen long plates and I haven't had a microphonic one yet (even 17mm). I consider it luck.
Last edited by jgab on Tue 10/27/09 7:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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blackjack
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Post by blackjack »

Very helpful jgab :)

I will look around for the GE 12ax7's and a low price always helps ;)

EDIT: Whats the difference between long plates and short plates? You guys recommend which one?
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jgab
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Post by jgab »

I will be getting a pair of GE EL84 tubes to try later this week. I will keep you posted.

Just remember that if you are concerened about the small details of sound, that just because one pair of GE's (or other brand) sound less than great, doesn't mean the next pair won't sound better. Even new production tubes of the same brand have variences in sound and quality. There are general characteriestics to a brand of tube though. To the general public, certain brand/s will most often sound great (hence the high price of a certain brand/s).
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blackjack
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Post by blackjack »

Gotcha. Ok sweet definately keep me posted with this GE el84s I really want to know how thhey sound :D


Thanks
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scottyj
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Post by scottyj »

For what it's worth, I have a set of GE EL84's which came out of a Magnatone M-10 that our somewhat ebay compulsive bass player picked up. Since the whole thing was tubed with GE's, they could be the original set and who knows how many hours they have on them.

That said, they still sound so much better than any of the new tubes I have hanging around. Very even frequency response, much more definition. They do seem to break up later, but when they do it is very rich. Can't comment on how they stack up to other NOS brands as I don't have any on hand.
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Post by jcny »

Are they EL84's or 7189A's out of the M-10?
Should be 7189A's, similar to EL84's but can take a MUCH higher voltage.

From what I know, you can use the 7189A's in place of EL84's but NOT the other way around. 8O 8O

And they do sound nice :D I have an M-10A and an M-15 in addition to my Trinity SIIIv6 18watt and Triwatt.
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Post by scottyj »

Thanks for pointing that out - closer inspection reveals they ARE 7189A's :oops: Never noticed that before. Well, back into the M-10 they go since we don't have any replacements hanging around. They do sound really nice in an 18 though.
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timbo_93631
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Post by timbo_93631 »

Got all of the trem issues resolved on my amp now and the reissue Mullards are working out great. So in the end I have:

JJ EZ81
Mullard repro EL84's
Mullard repro 12AX7's

Lots of good breakup, great tone. Amp gets to breakup a little sooner, so it doesn't have to be cranked so much, which my neighbors and family probably appreciate.
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Post by jgab »

Cool.

Do you have a sound clips? I know sound clips are nothing like being there in person, but I would still like to hear those new Mullards. Does anyone know if they are using the same tooling machines to make these new Mullard tubes?
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Post by paulschnettler »

timbo_93631 wrote:Got all of the trem issues resolved on my amp now and the reissue Mullards are working out great. So in the end I have:

JJ EZ81
Mullard repro EL84's
Mullard repro 12AX7's

Lots of good breakup, great tone. Amp gets to breakup a little sooner, so it doesn't have to be cranked so much, which my neighbors and family probably appreciate.
Timbo, what vendor did you get those Mullard's from. While I'm happy with Sgt. Overdrives tubes. I'm looking to populate a new build with some of those you mentioned.
thanks,
Schnauzer
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timbo_93631
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Post by timbo_93631 »

Bought them off of fleabay. EL84's came from: http://myworld.ebay.com/ctech-electronics-store/
12AX7's came from:
http://myworld.ebay.com/eosada/
Had to get a replacement set of 12AX7's, Ed Osada was great about it, he even refunded my shipping cost to return them back to paypal.
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