need some help choosing nos el84

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lespaulblues
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need some help choosing nos el84

Post by lespaulblues »

Hi,
Can anyone help with this choice from crowthorne valves in the uk.
He has the following.
I can't stretch to mullard money either.
what are your thoughts please.

2 x Billington Gold usa made at £10 each
2 mazda uk made £18 each
2 philips uk made £40 each
2 pinnacle west german £10 each
2 mullard £45 each

Could you also reccomend any others that are cheap but good
These are from colomor valves.
EL84M RUSSIA 6BQ5 TUBE VALVE NOS MATCHED PAIR EL84JJ 6BQ5 TUBE VALVE NOS MATCHED PAIR

Is it better to but 2 the same make with el84's.


Thanks.
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Phil_S
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Post by Phil_S »

IMO, the 18W drives it's power tubes very hard. For this reason I, would hesitate to spend on the big money tubes. I'm also not quite convinced the price difference from old to new production tubes is justified for this particular amp. I know opinions will vary. I'm not looking to make trouble.

If you are really set on using old stock tubes (who really knows if they are "new"?), and budget is the issue, I suggest looking for US made 6GK6. This is a 6BQ5/EL84 with a different pin out. That and the screen is not tied internally to the cathode, which is not a big deal -- you just tie them at the tube socket pins. I am running a pair of Sylvania's in my 18W. These are good strong and great sounding tubes, and I think they will take a pile of abuse. They were half the cost of 6BQ5's. I think the 6GK6 cost about one-third of the 6BQ5.
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krx
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Post by krx »

Get the cheap ones. They're just rebrands of more expensive tubes and thus a much better value.

I don't spend money on NOS power tubes any more. Not worth it, in my opinion. You get a lot more bang for your buck with NOS preamp tubes. These are pretty cheap though, so may be worth a shot.
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Phil_S
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Post by Phil_S »

BTW, those Billington tubes are most likely Chinese and IMO not worth £10 ($20) each. Read http://www.bel-tubes.co.uk/history.htm
Prices: https://secure25.securewebsession.com/b ... 27&x=0&y=0
Last edited by Phil_S on Sat 03/27/10 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Shottky
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Post by Shottky »

I've been looking into the Russian EL84s a lot more lately. I picked up a batch of 6n14n tubes that sound astonishingly good. Right now I have a '68 and a '79 tube in my amp. I heard that you can get some really good luck with 70s tubes from the Saratov plant. Best of all, you can buy a whole batch (say 4 to 8) of them for like 30 USD.
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Post by snoof »

+1 on the 6GK6's
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zaphod_phil
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Post by zaphod_phil »

I do think it's worth buying NOS tubes, if you really want the best tone. So I mainly use NOS tubes in my own amps. I also bias them carefully, so they don't get destroyed by the rigours of being in a guitar amp, whether 18W or otherwise. But I'm also a cheapskate, so I shop around for bargains from various places. :) The Sarge (Terry Kilgore aks Sgt Overdrive aka Tube Tramp) is also a great source of NOS at sensible prices. Those UK Mazdas should be good valves, and look like great value for money. Don't bother getting matched sets. Just watch out for Colomore adding shipping and VAT on top of their quited priice. For customers' amps I use good quality modern production tubes, unless they specifically ask for NOS.
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blaren
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Post by blaren »

I too think good old glass is worth it. Those Russian 6n14n are good. Just get the right ones.
I have some NOS NIB Mullards for sale for quite a bit less than the ones you mention. I also have some NOS TESLA (NOT JJ) that are AWESOME.
Also...dont forget about 12AX7s. They can make even more of a difference than the powertubes. I have some beauties of them too at great prices.
You can email me if you're interested.
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Post by Phil_S »

blaren wrote:...dont forget about 12AX7s. They can make even more of a difference than the powertubes.
+1 on that. When you build your own, you can make choices. My 18W is running NOS Sylvania 6GK6 in the power section, and I put a Mullard 6EU7 in V1. OK, so, I am talking out of both sides of my mouth...maybe. I didn't spend a great deal of money for these tubes.
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krx
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Post by krx »

Phil_S wrote:
blaren wrote:...dont forget about 12AX7s. They can make even more of a difference than the powertubes.
+1 on that.
+1 NOS preamp tubes are much better bang for the buck than power tubes. They last much longer, decent used ones are pretty cheap, and they have a bigger effect on the tone.
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kyoungsteadt
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Post by kyoungsteadt »

I'm with you guys on the NOS tubes. Some of the new production stuff sounds okay, but they just don't last like the NOS tubes.
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dotfret
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Post by dotfret »

Going over your original choices -
The Billington Gold are usually rebranded Russki - Billingtons have them all individually tested, which puts the price up over std Russki 6p14p

The Mazda UK made are likely to be Brimar or Mullard.

The Philips UK made are probably Mullard, but likely to be the 6BQ5 pattern (circular holes in the plates) rather than the EL84 pattern (rectangular slits in the plates).

Pinnacle west german are likely to be Valvo or Siemens Halske.

Both the Pinnacle and the Mazda should sound as good as the Mullards, but the prices are a lot better!
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John_A
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Post by John_A »

I have a pair of russian 6n14n-eb's that I won't be using still sealed in boxes £12 the pair posted SOLD

I used to use them in my amps before I decided I liked 6v6's better, nice sounding valves.
Last edited by John_A on Fri 04/02/10 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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krx
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Post by krx »

I wouldn't buy anything from this place if they're selling the Billingtons as US made when they're not.
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lespaulblues
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Post by lespaulblues »

Hi,
I just got some sovtek el84m tubes from watford valves which i think
is ok for £23 posted
I also got an rca ge and sylvania 12ax7 tubes cheap off a guy on ebay.
I'm still swapping the 12ax7's round.
I liked the rca for clarity but not as much gain in v1.
I think it sounds clearer with a bit less noise as well overall.
I can't really crank it up at home and i'm using a vvr but i
still love the sound of this plexi amp.
I've got some hum to deal with though as it's not the tubes.
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dotfret
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Post by dotfret »

krx wrote:I wouldn't buy anything from this place if they're selling the Billingtons as US made when they're not.
I'm sure if there is any mistake, it is an honest mistake. And it may be that the valves are US made ...

Crowthorne are nice people. Billingtons are nice people. I have personally visited Gerry (Crowthorne) and Martin (Billington), and bought valves from them.

Billington do not like small orders or dealing with the public - they are wholesalers. Their "gold" range valves are relabels from a range of sources. But each valve is individually tested in England, whatever the source.

I use Billington Gold 12AX7. They are Russian, they look like 6n2p internally, they sound like NOS US valves, and I know they are a batch that was specially made for Billington.

You get more tonal variety in 12AX7 than any other valve. A friend of mine bought a Bogen amp, with Chinese valves as standard. We tried a lot of NOS valves in it - only the Billington Gold actually made a discernible positive sound difference. You don't get that problem with an 18 watt - 12AX7 show much more variation.

WTH I'm just saying that these people are straight and honest, from a satisfied customer point of view. They have been in business for years, and they do not deserve cursory dismissal for a perceived ambiguosity.
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chabby
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Post by chabby »

I'm going to have to pipe up for nos tubes as well, there's just no comparison to not only how the amp sounds, but how much better the amp operates. I find they last longer, sound better and don't have events of catastrophic failure like I've seen alot lately with cheap Russian tubes.

I can tell you of at least 3 techs in my area that like me have gotten over 50% bad tubes this past year from a certain popular russian tube maker.
Used to be everyone's favorite cheap tube, now even at the cheap price they ain't worth it. I hope they will get back to where they were a couple years ago. I go Chinese now for all my cheap tube needs.

But nos tubes are worth it for several reasons to me, not just tone (but that too).
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