New 5E3 rant!!!

lo-watt · Post by **lo-watt** » Sun 04/22/07 9:20 am

Ok...had a chance to try the newly released Fender 5e3 handwired version yesterday. Cool sounding amp. But the price was, get this: 1799.00$!!!!

Now i could have gone right across the street and got a new Fender low powered tweed twin at GC for the SAME price. Much bigger,more tubes, Alnico W**** speakers and all the jazz..

what is Fender thinking???

Average 5e3 kit price is around 650...And damn simple to build

Who in the F is gonna buy the same damn thing for a grand more???

loyjdockery · Post by **loyjdockery** » Sun 04/22/07 10:27 am

I think they're thinking that most people don't build amps themselves.

Buschman · Post by **Buschman** » Sun 04/22/07 10:35 am

You can by a 59 for that much.

loyjdockery · Post by **loyjdockery** » Sun 04/22/07 10:45 am

It still is too much money though...

joe6v6 · Post by **joe6v6** » Sun 04/22/07 10:54 am

Are these amps made & wired here in the USA? Im just wondering if that price tag has anything to do with labor rates here vs elsewhere. You know Fender if getting the parts & components dirt cheap & as we all know there really isnt a whole lot to a 5e3.

JOE

lo-watt · Post by **lo-watt** » Sun 04/22/07 7:10 pm

It appears that thye are built here in the states,but if in Corona,then its a large% mexicans i'm sure....

beerman · Post by **beerman** » Sun 04/22/07 7:20 pm

Dude... they are making those things for VG readers. They are priced like that because those guys - you know, the SERIOUS collectors - wouldn't feel right unless they'd been ripped off. And also 'cause the sales guys at Fender know they will get a reaction from the owner/builder posse, ie. us, and they think it's hilarious.

And so do I.

Bulatovic · Post by **Bulatovic** » Sun 04/22/07 7:26 pm

also, they write that it is produced in series of ONLY 300 which will take the price up ridiculously.

Imagine a EVJ custom with the same guts just different colour being sold in the series of 200 for the price of 700usd. Wouldn't that be the same?
i guess so...
Marketing rules

beerman · Post by **beerman** » Sun 04/22/07 7:27 pm

Bulatovic wrote:also, they write that it is produced in series of ONLY 300 which will take the price up ridiculously.

Imagine a EVJ custom with the same guts just different colour being sold in the series of 200 for the price of 700usd. Wouldn't that be the same?
i guess so...
Marketing rules

Man.... you're onto sometging there. I give the fella's at Gibson/Epiphone about a week to announce just that....

Dana-L · Post by **Dana-L** » Sun 04/22/07 9:35 pm

lo-watt wrote:It appears that thye are built here in the states,but if in Corona,then its a large% mexicans i'm sure....

The prized pre-CBS Fender guitars and amplifiers were made almost entirely by women and men of Mexican descent. Bill Carson, the 50+ year Fender employee who died earlier this year, made it clear in his book about Fender that their products have always been made by folks from South of the border.

Cheers,

-Dana

s2 · Post by s2 » Sun 04/22/07 10:27 pm

I was just at the Dallas Guitar Show and saw a couple of samples of crappy old 5E3s for under 2K. Of course, for a guy like me, that is a steal since I can worship the ragged out cabinet and fix the internals.

Then there was this tweed Pro. It was in really bad shape and had a lot of rework (like a few Teflon wires inside) and a missing back panel. I couldn't get the guy to let me check the trannies and speaker date codes. It also had some orange drops in it for some reason. But he only wanted something like $800 for it. If I could have laid eyes on the trannies and verified the speaker was not blown and was not a recone, I would have bought it and laughed all the way back to my workshop, where I would enjoy restoring it...

Sorry. I digressed from my original digression. Anyway, you can buy 5E3 clones for half that and they probably sound better. Richter and Lil' Dawg come to mind.

phsyconoodler · Post by **phsyconoodler** » Sun 04/22/07 10:41 pm

I played the Fender 5E3 reissue and it is a fine sounding amplifier.It looks good and sounds great.But......the price is rediculous.They are obviously counting on collectors to buy them up and put them in their closets for 25 years.
As for getting the clones to sound better?Maybe,but if they sound as good,that would be plenty indeed!But the reissue is clearly a marketing thing.Even at today's labour prices it would not be that much to build a 5E3.However,that said there are many boutique builders out there that want at least 1700.00U.S. for their version of the 5E3.
All the better for us other boutique builders who do 5E3's for more reasonable prices.
Thanks Fender

lo-watt · Post by **lo-watt** » Sun 04/22/07 11:36 pm

Great input from all!

First let me say this: MY earlier comments were NOT meant to be a slur on ANYONE of Mexican decent or background. I was merely making a point that Fender is and basically has always used a cheaper labor force to build the majority of their products to save money. Thats a Fact as many can attest to. Abigail,Gloria,Lupe and Taddeo would aggree.

So,dont get uptight and to be honest i feel kinda stupid for pointing it out

Still,no one with any amp sense will pay that much for that amp,given the quality of materials used and the expertiese in assembling the parts. Its a waste of money. The exact same kit with some step up substitutions(MM,Heyboer,Jensen,Hoviland,Riken Ohm,etc...) in parts would BLOW AWAY that 1.8k bugger

blaren · Post by **blaren** » Mon 04/23/07 1:13 am

There was a similar thread at PP about a year ago regarding the Marshall HW series and the JH model in particular. My point was that.....even WITH "western...first world...EXPENSIVE" labor, it costs peanuts to build handwired amps. It doesnt take many hours to put one together and the parts cost next to nothing. The R&D was done 50 years ago and has paid for itself a billion times. I DOUBT that many of the components are American. Even the chassis are PROBABLY stamped and punched in China for pennies a piece. Trannies?...who knows...doubtful that they're handmade in the States.
You know...when people say...why does a PRS guitar cost thousands...they're cnc made in seconds.....well not esactly...PLUS, that tooling IS worth millions. I mean...once Mr. Smith has made his money back and has paid for the machines and overhead is he gonna lower the price?...no. that would be CRAZY...everyone would know and just wait till the prices came down...which they never would cause everyone was waiting..lol.
Or a car manufacturer....once they've made all the money in the world off a model and are still using the same tooling (ex: Ford F150), are they gonna chop the price in half? NO.

With these amps, its not like they had to start with a current solid state or digital (or whatever goes on these days with amps) designed amp and modify/change it's design to have chassis mounted pots and tubes etc., rather than PCB mounted...and come-up with a HW board design to replace the PCB one, they already had all the engineering done.
You'd THINK that they could sell a handwired head (not with speakers) for just a BIT more than their cheap line of solidstate low powered amps??? I mean really...just how much ARE they paying their workers?...even if it's $30/hour....it really doesnt take very long to assemble and wire an amp...especially if you work in an amp building factory. They probably pay what?.....like 10 or 11 dollars for their PCBs?...IF that?....a HW board is gonna cost them like.....5 times as much or...$50?...and they're selling them for HOW much? I hope Behringer doesnt hear about this lol. Actually, I guess Nik is like the Behringer of HW amps lol....except his dont break down if LOOK at them.
The good news is....it costs WAY more to BUILD a Ford truck from scratch than what you can buy one for. Thankfully, phenolic, wire, resistors and caps cost pennies.

harpo · Post by **harpo** » Mon 04/23/07 1:59 am

I think what Fender is marketing is "This is a FENDER 5E3 Deluxe. Just like the OLD ones, handwired. And in another 50 years it will be collectable too!" That is why they only release 300 or so, to hype the supposed collectability. It is envy of the boutique builders that has moved Fender to market these amps.
Think about it. Boutique builders clone Fender products --> create new market niche --> Fender clones Boutique builders clone of Fender product.
Now we just have to copy the new collectable copy of the old original amp... Oh man this is twisted

John

sjhusting · Post by **sjhusting** » Mon 04/23/07 3:50 am

I believe the 300 limit is not for the 5e3 ("57 Deluxe amp") but for the "57 Amp," a different animal entirely.

If Fender can get that much for the 5e3, more power to them. I can't see that it's really going to hurt any of the custom builders. Now, if they sold it for $1000, that might hurt. If you want, look at the high price as a favor to the little guys.

Me, I built my own, and am quite happy with it. Hoffman board, MM trannys & choke, 150s, milspec pots, does 6V6 and 6L6. Doesn't say Fender on it and it's not in a Tweed cab. And I didn't use Sprague Atoms or carbon comp.

steven

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Mon 04/23/07 4:07 am

Now you guy's should visit denmark.

The shop price of the 1974x handwired combo is set about 35% down to what i converted to 2500$ us.

Talk about overpricing.

Theo

Bulatovic · Post by **Bulatovic** » Mon 04/23/07 6:18 am

Does the price for 1974x include the spare PT

?
I would like to hear an explanation from someone, why would anyone spend so much money for something - amp in this case, without checking the internet, forums and stuff is it really cool. That makes people buy 1974x thinking that they have bought the top of the range Marshall for normal price, not knowing that their PT is just about to blow. The same amp - just even better - can be bought completed with the cabinet as well for as much as 600-700$. If you are capable of doing it yourself it gets down to some 500$...

And whyyyyy???

lo-watt · Post by **lo-watt** » Mon 04/23/07 7:13 am

'Yeah. so Fender can just jack the price on a so so amp.

And yet there are that many people out there who cant/dont build amps and figure 1800 is a lot better than 3 to 4 grand fro a 58 Deluxe and it sounds the same(to them) so i'll buy the new one. A company as big as Fender dosent research the demographic of Who will buy this amp?

It's just that we know better.

Its all a buisness in the end.

PCollen · Post by **PCollen** » Mon 04/23/07 7:50 am

joe6v6 wrote:Are these amps made & wired here in the USA? Im just wondering if that price tag has anything to do with labor rates here vs elsewhere. You know Fender if getting the parts & components dirt cheap & as we all know there really isnt a whole lot to a 5e3.

JOE

Perhaps Miguel need a new Mercedes....

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New 5E3 rant!!!

New 5E3 rant!!!