Advice for Soldering Turrets

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perplexd
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Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by perplexd »

Hello all,

I've begun working on my turret board and first wrapped buss wire around the turrets and soldered which was slick. I chose to put components in the top of the turrets for convenient tweaking, but I am having more trouble than I expected. I watched the videos in the sticky links, but they didn't cover this method, and I understand that it is not preferred. I do however see examples of it a lot in images when I searched for turret board amps. So anyway, the solder wants to either fill the hole or wet the outside of the turret before it will form a meniscus across the component lead and top of the turret. Any tips for this method? I am contemplating finishing the board by wrapping the component leads instead.
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

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perplexd wrote:
Thu 12/03/20 9:58 am
Hello all,

I've begun working on my turret board and first wrapped buss wire around the turrets and soldered which was slick. I chose to put components in the top of the turrets for convenient tweaking, but I am having more trouble than I expected. I watched the videos in the sticky links, but they didn't cover this method, and I understand that it is not preferred. I do however see examples of it a lot in images when I searched for turret board amps. So anyway, the solder wants to either fill the hole or wet the outside of the turret before it will form a meniscus across the component lead and top of the turret. Any tips for this method? I am contemplating finishing the board by wrapping the component leads instead.
I know it's not the preferred method, but here's how I do it:
Heat the turret wit a soldering tip with a little solder on it. Let it flow in the hole and add a little more solder. Now the solder sits a little under the surface. Then wait a few seconds until it sets. Then add some more solder on top with your Iron. It should leave that dome you want. Don't overheat and don't use too much solder. There's a chance it will drip from the bottom side of the hole when you use too much solder. That could create a short to the chassis.
But preferred method is around the turrets. It's a lot easier to remove the components without letten the solder drip out from the bottom.
Tip: always remove all the solder from or out of the turret when changing components. Never reuse the solder that's already there..

I'm sure some will yell " burn the heretic" at me now, but it works for me...
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by JMPGuitars »

Bieworm wrote:
Thu 12/03/20 10:42 am
It should leave that dome you want.
No! No domes. Domes are too much solder. Yes, a lot of people have them, but domes are...CONVEX...and good solder joints are CONCAVE. In a good solder joint you should see the outline of the lead. You can't see anything in a dome.

The correct process is the same, in or out of a turret.

1. Press chisel iron tip to turret.
2. Put solder on the tip of the iron so that it creates a heat bridge to the turret. Sometimes this is a drop, sometimes it's more. If there isn't enough solder to make a bridge, you're wasting your time.
3. The solder bridge will melt, and when the turret is heated enough, the solder will walk away and adhere to the turret. This will leave a little extra solder when soldering the turret hole, but it's still the correct way.
4. Once the turret is hot enough, apply solder to the inside of the turret (for inside mounted leads). The turret should be hot enough to melt the solder with the iron still on the outside.
5. As you finish up, "paint" the top of the turret with the iron tip to make sure the solder is evenly applied and properly smooth. This might not be necessary, but instead you may need to paint the outside of the turret. This is a relatively fast step either way.
6. Inspect the turret, make sure the solder is smooth, shiny, and convex, with the outline of the lead being very slightly visible.

Here's a recent amp build I did, with 3 different results relevant to this discussion:
_JMP1305.jpg

All 3 are acceptable, but the top right is the best. The bottom one has slightly less than it should, and the top left has slightly more than it should. All are within acceptable ranges. If there was a full dome on the top left, I would have removed some solder and corrected it. I opted to leave them as they are because I don't want to mess around and overheat them.

Thanks,
Josh
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by Bieworm »

JMPGuitars wrote:
Thu 12/03/20 12:04 pm
Bieworm wrote:
Thu 12/03/20 10:42 am
It should leave that dome you want.
No! No domes. Domes are too much solder. Yes, a lot of people have them, but domes are...CONVEX...and good solder joints are CONCAVE. In a good solder joint you should see the outline of the lead. You can't see anything in a dome.

The correct process is the same, in or out of a turret.

1. Press chisel iron tip to turret.
2. Put solder on the tip of the iron so that it creates a heat bridge to the turret. Sometimes this is a drop, sometimes it's more. If there isn't enough solder to make a bridge, you're wasting your time.
3. The solder bridge will melt, and when the turret is heated enough, the solder will walk away and adhere to the turret. This will leave a little extra solder when soldering the turret hole, but it's still the correct way.
4. Once the turret is hot enough, apply solder to the inside of the turret (for inside mounted leads). The turret should be hot enough to melt the solder with the iron still on the outside.
5. As you finish up, "paint" the top of the turret with the iron tip to make sure the solder is evenly applied and properly smooth. This might not be necessary, but instead you may need to paint the outside of the turret. This is a relatively fast step either way.
6. Inspect the turret, make sure the solder is smooth, shiny, and convex, with the outline of the lead being very slightly visible.

Here's a recent amp build I did, with 3 different results relevant to this discussion:
_JMP1305.jpg


All 3 are acceptable, but the top right is the best. The bottom one has slightly less than it should, and the top left has slightly more than it should. All are within acceptable ranges. If there was a full dome on the top left, I would have removed some solder and corrected it. I opted to leave them as they are because I don't want to mess around and overheat them.

Thanks,
Josh
I didn't know that. Makes sense though...
No more youtube for that stuff...
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by perplexd »

Thanks, I changed tip and got much better results tonight. I think I was getting the turrets too hot.

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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by crgfrench »

Holy cow those are big carbon comps
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by Daviedawg »

Avoid the issue altogether. Use eyelet board or tagstrips. Especially if you intend to mod afterwards.

Sorry I can't keep silent about disliking turrets despite having built several amps and related circuits with them. And I know it is a technique thing. But my worst nightmares are filled with turret boards and cold joints.

Yes. I will get my coat.

Dd
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by JMPGuitars »

Daviedawg wrote:
Fri 12/04/20 3:41 am
Avoid the issue altogether. Use eyelet board or tagstrips. Especially if you intend to mod afterwards.

Sorry I can't keep silent about disliking turrets despite having built several amps and related circuits with them. And I know it is a technique thing. But my worst nightmares are filled with turret boards and cold joints.

Yes. I will get my coat.

Dd
Lol! You're entitled to your own opinion. Eyelets do the job too.

I'm pretty sure turrets would beat eyelets in a knife fight.
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by perplexd »

crgfrench wrote:
Fri 12/04/20 1:18 am
Holy cow those are big carbon comps
2 watt, 5% tol Allen Bradleys :D I didn’t know exactly how big they were when I ordered them, but they fit. Aiken says bigger will have less noise, so I figured what the heck?
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by coolidgeamps »

JMPGuitars wrote:
Thu 12/03/20 12:04 pm
No! No domes. Domes are too much solder. Yes, a lot of people have them, but domes are...CONVEX...and good solder joints are CONCAVE.

Thanks,
Josh
@bieworm and I use the same 2 step approach. Step 1 concave allowing solder to flow into the turret hole, pause to let set, then add a dome for appearance in step 2. If you get the component lead and turret top hot enough for solder to flow (suck down) into the turret hole you won't have cold solder joints. You cannot just do step 2 and put a dome on it.

Polished domes are cool behold!

Image
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by Bieworm »

coolidgeamps wrote:
Fri 12/04/20 10:42 am
JMPGuitars wrote:
Thu 12/03/20 12:04 pm
No! No domes. Domes are too much solder. Yes, a lot of people have them, but domes are...CONVEX...and good solder joints are CONCAVE.

Thanks,
Josh
@bieworm and I use the same 2 step approach. Step 1 concave allowing solder to flow into the turret hole, pause to let set, then add a dome for appearance in step 2. If you get the component lead and turret top hot enough for solder to flow (suck down) into the turret hole you won't have cold solder joints. You cannot just do step 2 and put a dome on it.

Polished domes are cool behold!

Image
My entire tone king imperial clone is done that way due to miserable turrets. They were just unsolderable peripherically. Since the board was built before I found out I couldn't motivate myself to start over with new turrets. I grinded the tops and drilled out the holes (slightly) and mounted everything on top. It's a neat build and the most noisefree amp I own.
20201023_115705.jpg
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by JMPGuitars »

coolidgeamps wrote:
Fri 12/04/20 10:42 am
JMPGuitars wrote:
Thu 12/03/20 12:04 pm
No! No domes. Domes are too much solder. Yes, a lot of people have them, but domes are...CONVEX...and good solder joints are CONCAVE.

Thanks,
Josh
@bieworm and I use the same 2 step approach. Step 1 concave allowing solder to flow into the turret hole, pause to let set, then add a dome for appearance in step 2. If you get the component lead and turret top hot enough for solder to flow (suck down) into the turret hole you won't have cold solder joints. You cannot just do step 2 and put a dome on it.

Polished domes are cool behold!
Domes are okay if done well. Your soldering skill is great (smooth and shiny!), but those domes are on the convex side which isn't ideal. If they had a bit less solder so you could see the outline of the leads better, they'd be perfect. The high quality of your solder technique otherwise makes up for the slightly excess solder. It does look cool though, no arguing that. 😉
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by crgfrench »

Bieworm wrote:
Fri 12/04/20 12:49 pm
peripherically
I learned a new word today!
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by Bieworm »

crgfrench wrote:
Fri 12/04/20 8:35 pm
Bieworm wrote:
Fri 12/04/20 12:49 pm
peripherically
I learned a new word today!
Ok. Around it. "Er omheen" in my language 😀
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by coolidgeamps »

JMPGuitars wrote:
Fri 12/04/20 6:50 pm
coolidgeamps wrote:
Fri 12/04/20 10:42 am
JMPGuitars wrote:
Thu 12/03/20 12:04 pm
No! No domes. Domes are too much solder. Yes, a lot of people have them, but domes are...CONVEX...and good solder joints are CONCAVE.

Thanks,
Josh
@bieworm and I use the same 2 step approach. Step 1 concave allowing solder to flow into the turret hole, pause to let set, then add a dome for appearance in step 2. If you get the component lead and turret top hot enough for solder to flow (suck down) into the turret hole you won't have cold solder joints. You cannot just do step 2 and put a dome on it.

Polished domes are cool behold!
Domes are okay if done well. Your soldering skill is great (smooth and shiny!), but those domes are on the convex side which isn't ideal. If they had a bit less solder so you could see the outline of the leads better, they'd be perfect. The high quality of your solder technique otherwise makes up for the slightly excess solder. It does look cool though, no arguing that. 😉
Use more solder for thicker mids. The monks made me swear a blood oath to keep that secret but I have decided to share. :wink:
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Re: Advice for Soldering Turrets

Post by JMPGuitars »

coolidgeamps wrote:
Fri 01/15/21 6:51 pm
Use more solder for thicker mids. The monks made me swear a blood oath to keep that secret but I have decided to share. :wink:
Hahahahahahaha

Dude, if anybody takes that seriously, I'm not going to correct them. :rol:
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