Marshall relaunches 18Wer (and others)

dboul · Post by **dboul** » Tue 04/20/04 12:39 am

Graydon wrote:
Plexi wrote:...Some will buy A marshall, Some will buy A GDS,Balls,Blockhead etc.. haha some may buy both...
And you might even find GDS or Balls buying a Marshall...

I'll be getting one. It's good research for all of us. You can always resell right away and probably not lose any money. I'm way too curious to pass it by . . . I just have to do a side-by-side comparison . . .

way too addicted . . .

dboul · Post by **dboul** » Wed 04/21/04 7:15 pm

In return for a few photos, measurements, part numbers and soundfiles, I was built this beautiful red clone which, as I've said several times already, is a distinctly superior amp to the original. It's quieter, more versatile, has a harmonically richer, more complex sound (clean or dirty) without actually crossing that border into Mesa Boogieland; and it sounds 'smoother', having none of the harshness that the trem channel on the original occasionally demonstrated...

This was the quote from Colin Macfarlane on another thread about his original 18 watt. If Marshall is "cloning" the old ones, maybe this is what we should expect.

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Sat 05/01/04 8:17 am

Still no mention on Marshall's web site. However, Guitarist magazine in the UK (an excellent mag BTW) has published an announcement, complete with pictures, under the headline, "Marshall goes boutique". The 1947X is a 1X12 18W combo replica. The 1974CX is a 20W 1X12 extension cab with an "aged" Celestion speaker. The 2061X is a 20W "Lead & Bass 20" re-issue which comes with a 2X12 cab loaded with G12H-30s. And the 1959HW head whic replicates the classic 100W Plexi, with EL34s, which in Marshall's words "defined the sound of rock". Straight and slant front 4X12s with G12H-30s are available for it. All the models are handwired, and the small photo of the 18W chassis looks very much like any would find in this site's gallery section. Marshall said, "Our primary objective has been to achieve maximum authenticity in in terms of components, circuitry, constructional methods, materials, specifications, aesthetics, signal path, perfromance, tonal characteristics and feels". I guess that pretty much covers everything! So we we should expect to see close match with Ian's amp, complete with 47k PI tail resistor, and maybe it will be possible to get hold of pinstripe grill fabric from Marshall too....

Post by **Plexi** » Sat 05/01/04 8:53 am

"""So we we should expect to see close match with Ian's amp, complete with 47k PI tail resistor, """

Phil I doubt it will be like Ians values.. the amp they are copying is a later version with the long grill,and those used the 56k..tail resistor..
As one person posted, marshall pretty much made the same statements when they put out the re-issiues.

"""Marshall said, "Our primary objective has been to achieve maximum authenticity in in terms of components, circuitry, constructional methods, materials, specifications, aesthetics, signal path, perfromance, tonal characteristics and feels". I guess that pretty much covers everything!"""

Well they came close..but they changed some things that were different than the originals,but most of those were the same things we changed,like the trem footswitch jack..and others like blockhead changed or moved things.. All this won't matter as long as the amps don't have problems,and they sound like they should...

You know, after i think about it, there probably aren't any 18s out there made as close to the originals,as what is built on here..lol
Richie

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Sat 05/01/04 3:09 pm

Could well be!

I also noticed that the 18W RI used the RS matrix board with all the holes in it, just like the original 18W. That's a nice touch. Apart from that, the pictures weren't big enough to see other details, like the type of grill. Have you seen one of these RIs in real life, then?

stevesuk · Post by **stevesuk** » Sun 05/02/04 3:51 am

I have tried the company that made the original hole board for RS that Marshall used, it was an old Engineering firm in East London. They went bust about 18 months ago, the firm that have taken them over, use the same premises and phone number etc. BUT although they remember the product they also remember skipping (dumping) the tooling and remaining stocks when they took over.
So Marshall are sourcing elsewhere.
It is made from SRBP (Synthetic Resin Bonded Paper) which is still manufactured in blank sheets and used. It may be a future project for me to source the material and get an engineering company to CNC drill it. It could be cheaper to get the 27 X 21 hole sheets cut or made in 27 X 7 hole smaller sheets and CNC drilled that way. That's a lot of drilling, 567 holes in the complete sheet and 189 holes in the 27 X 7. Some CNC machines have multiple drills set up to drill all at the same time, but I wouldn't think 567 !!!

The turret tags are still made and are available from several sources, BUT they are not cheap.

Steve UK

markd · Post by **markd** » Mon 05/17/04 11:52 pm

Steve,
Remember this post you made at the old site?

>From: "steves02uk" <steve.smith@south-thames.ac.uk>
>Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 5:42 am
>Subject: Original RS Board and Tags

>ADVERTISEMENT

>The original RS board and tags are still available from RS in the UK.
>I have looked into it and they will not supply outside the UK.
>BUT !!
>They are owned by Electrocomponents and they are situated in the
>states as below.

>If they still won't supply I could consider getting it in the UK, but
>it is not very cheap, it would cost about $25 each for board and 100
>tags including shipping.

> The RS catalogue number is RS 433-551 for the board and
>RS 433-589 for the turret tags. Be careful there are two sizes.

>NORTH AMERICA
>Allied Electronics Inc.
>7410 Pebble Drive
>Fort Worth
>Texas 76118
>www.alliedelec.com

> Message 4575 of 8308

I wish I had taken you up on that offer. Instead I got them through Allied and they were $38 for a full sheet and 100 turrets. The board was also a lighter color than the NOS sheet I got from you. But it definitely is from RS.

markd

stevesuk · Post by **stevesuk** » Tue 05/18/04 2:33 am

Hello Mark,
Nice to hear from you. That seems more than two years ago !!

I have squirelled away half a dozen new sheets of RS hole board and a load of sheets with a few tags in them which can be drilled out. Fortunately RS and others still make the tags.
If I live long enough I hope to use them all in amps, particularly 36 Watters with MV TMB which is the Holy Grail as far as I'm concerned. You always have the tone and the power when you need it.
My next new project is to make a 2 X 12" combo sort of in the Marshall style but, with the speakers one above the other BUT the top speaker will incline back about 25 ? degrees, just for the guitarist to hear it. Blasting sound into the back of your legs on small stages isn't the best way to perform.
It may work, or it may end up like the 12" deep 24" high 28" long JTM45 combo gathering dust in the corner of the amp room because it is too big and heavy.

Steve UK

ampkits · Post by **ampkits** » Tue 05/18/04 11:38 am

Hi,

RS dont make the tags, I dont think.

If you source around (esp in UK for the original type), you will find prices much cheaper. But at large quantities (10K and above).

On the RS board, I did try to find the manufacturer as RS had the name of company in the website. To no avail..hehe..

I dont think it was drilled. More like stamped? Hot stamped maybe?

I like SRBP, the RS type. It looks delicious (literally).

Thanks!

Nik

pete_skelton · Post by **pete_skelton** » Sat 05/22/04 4:44 pm

Hi

They had one of these amps chassis on display at the London Guitar Show. I had a good look, and only just resisted the temptation to run back and get my notebook and do a few sketches! The short and tall of it is that they don't seem to be using original parts, in terms of resistor and cap types. They are using that aged Greenback, 20W like the original ones were, not 25W.

Anyway, they were also had a band demoing a DSL100, Mode 4, and the 18W. Short and tall of it, it sounds LOVELY. Its sweet, not harsh like the BB/RI etc. The guitarist was using a PRS 22 Custom, and the band basically jammed on "'Cause We've Ended as Lovers" (Jeff Beck for the un-initiated). However, going by MP3s I've heard, what you guys are building still has the edge...

Just my 2 cents
peter

Post by **Plexi** » Sat 05/22/04 5:51 pm

Peter: thanks for the info,and report! I guess we'll all no even more in a few months when the amps are let go to the public..

""However, going by MP3s I've heard, what you guys are building still has the edge... """

The mp3s are good,but they don't sound as good as when your in the room with the amp making them. They sound better in person than the MP3s. Although we try to make them as close or best as we can to what we are hearing.

Richie

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Sat 05/22/04 6:46 pm

I just read a great article on the new hand-wired 18W combo and 20W head, in the UK's "Guitarist" magazine. The pictures show the tubes in the combo now covered with a kind of aluminium cage and the power inout has an IEC connector. Otherwise, the amps look very original and authentic, complete with that pinstripe material on the fronts. The Marshall design engineer in the interview, Ian Robinson, said they had literally had to "...scour the globe for the right materials and components, and finding materials that met the original specification but met modern safety laws internationally, was a real challenge..." "We took our original amps from the Marshall museum and straight away we found things we knew weren't going to be easy to duplicate. For example one the transformers came from a trade parts supplier [RS no doubt

], so we had to go through them to track down the company that manufactured the transformer all those years ago to discover the specs so that we sould rebuild them. And that was one of the easier problems!" Hah, I think we could have saved Marshall some time and inconvenience there!

About the power stage of these amps, Ian Robinson says, "It's a totally different approach to our bigger amps... And that made it difficult to duplicate some of the tonal nuances of the originals. Taking away the negative feedback means that very little changes in components like the output transformer result in big audible differences. We had to go to some extreme lengths, like devising a special test rig that let us do instant A/B comparisons on different output transformers in the same amp circuit". Heck, all they need to have done was check the OT shoot-out by Adrian "Wannatone"! But that comment about the no NFB thing is very interesting.
Ian then goes on to say, "The right choice of EL84 is crucial to getting these amps to sound good. We went through a lot of brands that didn't have the reliability or tone - in this circuit most of the overdrive comes from those output valves and the output transformer has a lot to do with the way they respond". Again, that pretty much confirms everything we've been saying on this board.
Guitarist says of these amps, "Despite just having two volume and tone controls to work with - or perhaps because of that - you don't spend any time dialling these amps in: it's literally just plug in and turn up for some of the best vintage rock and blues guitar sounds you will ever hear. It's real classic Marshall stuff, with all the warmth that vintage amp lovers crave."

Right on!!!

Post by **Plexi** » Sat 05/22/04 7:21 pm

HAHAHA that was funny Phil.. they could have rented Adrians rig for the A/B-ing

"""We went through a lot of brands that didn't have the reliability or tone """

They don't say what they use or settled on. thats about with any amp,finding the tubes that sound good for the amp.
The tube taste test posted,shows that some sound a little better,but even the tubes they make now can also work and sound fine in the amps. I guess one could pic some to suit there ears. Kinda like speakers..none are too bad,just that there are better ones.

You know, since they got the ones from the museum,if they also grabbed some clones that others have made to see how they compared.

And nothing said of the trem?? Now that is weird. We'll just have to wait and see/hear how they sound. I still think they should have made the 2x12..

Richie

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Sun 05/23/04 2:57 am

Marshall have made a matching cab for the 18W combo, which looks identical from the front, and the magazine article shows a combo and cab stacked.

IIRC the 20W head used to have a 1X12 cab. This time they have made a beautiful 2X12 slant front cab. Now, where have seen one of those before - Graydon?

pete_skelton · Post by **pete_skelton** » Sun 05/23/04 5:27 am

IIRC they are putting Sovteks in again. *Groan*. From what I'm told, JJ make the best EL84s nowadays, I've got a set of JJs and a set of Sovteks in GT livery which I bought specifically to build an 18W with, I'll pit them against each other and let you know what I find.

Also, the one I saw being demoed didnt have the trem in use. Maybe they are having trouble with it...

peter

kinai · Post by **kinai** » Sat 05/29/04 3:16 pm

Dig this :

http://www.marshallamps.com/images/products/hw/

(by the way I'm a newbie. Hi all!)

Post by **Plexi** » Sat 05/29/04 3:57 pm

Someone on plexi palace said there is a demo recording of the 20 watt head..its in guitarist magazine. If anyone has that,maybe they could post it in our files..

Richie

mark0614 · Post by **mark0614** » Sat 05/29/04 11:02 pm

Judging by the picture of the grill cloth at the Marshall site, it would appear that Marshall aren't going to try to make something that looks like the old "pinstrip" grill cloth.

That's a pity, because it looks so good!

Yours Sincerely

Mark Abbott.

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Sun 05/30/04 5:19 pm

Plexi wrote:If anyone has that,maybe they could post it in our files..

It's a real *cool* demo track. I just hope it's not illegal to post it.

Post by **Plexi** » Sun 05/30/04 5:48 pm

Yeah that is kinda goofy.. if its a demo of the amp,seems they wouldn't mind posting it so people could hear it..Which may sell some amps for them..lol

Richie

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Marshall relaunches 18Wer (and others)

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