If you have ordered an 18 watt kit

[theundeadelvis]

I have now ordered a couple kits from Loy, and I have to say he has been great. There have been a couple hiccups, which is to be expected of any new business (especially when the person is in school too!), and Loy has always corrected them. Heck, heck I just got charged twice and sent the wrong speaker by Mojo today, so it happens. I've discovered if you in a hurry or excited and ready to get started, things will go wrong. It's probably a Murphy's Law.

[KrazyKabs]

Hey, I've got an idea...

Order a tweed Deluxe from Mission then

Order a D-Lite from Brown Note then

Order an 18 watt from GDS because they're a really good kit then

Order another version of your 18 watt from Dockery (TMB if your GDS is trem or vice-versa) then

Order a Princeton chassis from Marsh then

Order a turret board for your Princeton from Turretboards then

Build them all as fast as you can then

Celebrate New Year's then

Take inventory of what you need for parts to finish up then

Call Mojo, CE, AES, that other guy we can't talk about here and anyone else I've left out then

Flee the country before your credit card company starts calling you all day and all night looking for their money!

As long as you have plenty of amps to build it doesn't matter when they show up. I celebrate Christmas three times a week all year, that's about how often USPS, UPS and FedEx leave packages outside my door!

[travis4prez]

Many of these problems are due to one person that I've tried to hire on to help me out. I ask him to ship it, and he doesn't. Stuff like that. It's apparent to me that the current system is not working.

I see what you mean. You asked this guy a simple question for me. Does the 5E3 PT have a 6.3V center tap? and its been nearly 24 hours without a response.

I'm a big fan of world class customer service. I expect the people that work for me to provide our customers with that kind of service at every opportunity. That much delay is not acceptable. At a minimum, this guy should let you know that he is working on the issue and when he will have the answer for you. But I also know the situation you're in. The guy you have just ain't working out but you really need someone there, so its tough.

If he ever responds let me know. This amp has been dead for a month now and a few more days won't hurt it. Until then I'll just have to stick to my 18 watter (obligatory 18 watt content).

[candh]

Hey guys, he's talking about me. I've been late on the shipping.

I'm okay with you guys knowing that, since it is the plain and simple truth. I have been selling kits and getting them out late. Many of these problems are due to one person that I've tried to hire on to help me out. I ask him to ship it, and he doesn't. Stuff like that. It's apparent to me that the current system is not working.

Here's what I'm going to do. Either I'm going to farm it off to someone who is better (and faster) than my current guy, or do it myself from now on. Either way, it WILL get faster.

Oh yeah, and I apologize Tubetwang for not refunding you completely. If you had said something to me I would've still refunded. For all others, I was late enough on tubetwang's shipment that he cancelled and I had to refund (he was the only refund I've had to do so far).

I'm truly sorry for all the bad service. I don't want to quit, because I think I have something good if I get this shipping problem down. I do understand if you do not order from me because of this.

Thanks,

Loy

Loy,

Hang in there young fella. There are only lessons in life and this is a good one. I like the fact you are explaining yourself and working to remedy the situation. In my experience wait times of 6 to 8 weeks or longer are not uncommon. That's not to say I'm content with it.

Give people the best service you can with honesty and you will prosper. I'd buy from ya just based on the integrity of your post alone. Now, a kit with 100v PT to Japan in less than a month would be impressive. You up for the challenge....lol?

PM me candhh@yahoo.com

Chris

[Rictone]

Inventorydude, I share your pain. I ordered an 18 watt lite kit from brown note that was confirmed on 9-23 and my excitement to receive and build this excellent amp kit has slowly died. For over a week now the status has been " will ship in 2 to 3 days" . It's now November and no kit. My credit card was charged back in September. I ordered the bare bones kit and had planned on ordering the brown note trannies after I received the kit because I didn't want to wait till I had the money saved up for the whole shoot'n match and because I just like receiving things in the mail. It's like Christmas with every package. The more the merrier. I'm confident when I do finally get it it will be everthing I hoped for but until then .......

[Graydon]

Now, a kit with 100v PT to Japan in less than a month would be impressive. You up for the challenge....lol?
Chris

I have Japanese-spec 100V PTs in stock. Email if you have any interest.

Loy, good job. Even if you have troubles, if you keep your customers informed and be honest, you should be OK. I've had shipping troubles too. I know how it can go some times.

[neiloler]

4 weeks?

That is 3 weeks too many!

Speed is of the essence here...

Well in defence of the kit makers, I also ordered a cabinet to go with it, so it took them a little bit to make the cab per my custome tolex specs. Yeah, still, could have been shorter, but it's great stuff, and I'm not complaining.

[brownnote]

I'm guilty too..no excuses.
I have to give a HUGE thanks to all the folks that have ordered from us.

THANKS!

BTW...Starting this month Nov we have a great office manager who's already kicking my butt into high gear....give her a call if you want her to put in a gratuitous (or well-deserved) butt-kicking on your behalf

[briane]

I'm guilty too..no excuses.
I have to give a HUGE thanks to all the folks that have ordered from us.

hey man, it was worth the wait!

I think your quality is tops, so like I said before I think thats the priority. If you want quick, then order from a giant monster, but be prepared when the ear test says gee 'I think its time to move some stuff around'. Also be prepared to pay a lot more if you want both quality and now.

Personally I think quality is the main concern. anyone can walk down to GC and get something that makes noise off the shelf. This is not what DIY is about...its about my (or your) tone. That and the satisfaction about knowing whats in there, who did it, how it was done....Plus the fun of getting to run the soldering iron.

I think 6-8 weeks should be considered a reasonable wait time.....longer if its a small outfit, or if you know that the supplier only will only send you the best...whenever it may happen to arrive at their shop. Remember this aint macy's, my friend;-)

[tubetwang]

The day 8 weeks is considered a reasonable wait time for quality parts is the day i move on to another hobby...

To each is own i guess...

[loyjdockery]

Since this thread was started because I was late, I would like to say that I'm getting progress on that. Now, my wife is doing it for me and she is very fast. We are now doing a much faster system/process than we had before. She is excited to help me out with this.

Another thing I am in the process of doing is giving her an e-mail address so that she can send out notifications of when things ship, and anything else needed. That way the customers are notified the day it's shipped, every time. I am going to focus on getting more amps available, updating the website, ordering the parts, etc...

For example, I'm working with a customer to create an Ampeg B-15N bass amp (2x6L6). I really don't see many bass amp kits out there, so I think there needs to be one. I'm also seeing how a TW Express pre goes with a 12AU7 PP output tube. That should be a fiery practice amp, with extra gain for the hi-distortion enthusiasts.

Loy

[kedsinger]

My day job is Vice President of National Sales for a large credit card processor, and I must say that there are rules and regulations about charging someones card long before product is shipped. It's actually put in place for this type of situation(avoid chargebacks). This is why you need to have your own credit card setup(instead of Pay-me-5%+pall). that way you can charge the customers card days before shipping(unless you need those funds to buy the parts that make up the kit). I personally do not want anything charged to one of my cards a month ahead of shipping because I don't keep balances on them. A week charged ahead is OK. Loy, I can understand that this business may be growing faster than you expected, but maybe that means you need to set it up more like a business and process things differently ie..set your website up with a shopping cart and a virtual credit card gateway(get rid of P/P). I think you'll actually save $. Have your popular kits ready to go because gateways are set-up for your customers to complete the transaction. If you are only selling one or two kits a month however Pay**LL is the way to go. I'm buying a kit from you, but I don't want my card charged a month ahead of time....me no like to pay interest .
Keith

[dartanion]

I did the kit thing briefly with Sweetwood and I can say that it is not easy at all coordinating the whole shebang. A lot of time was spent specifying parts, assembling orders, waiting for shipments, then waiting for stuff that was on back order, finding alternative vendors for parts that were on back order, waiting some more, etc. That, and the outlay of cash to get parts in hand is not small. It became more of a hassle than it was worth to me, so I am sticking with building amps for folks and leave the frustrations of a kit business to others.

Hang in there Loy, I know you're trying to do the best by your customers.

[loyjdockery]

Keith,

I'm improving the shipping time to be definitely within a week. Most of the time I end up sending 95% of the kit within a week and the other 5% takes a couple weeks (unusually, 3-4 weeks). I'm not waiting to ship the kit out until I get all of the parts ready. That way the customers can get started while they wait for their 1 or 2 caps, transfomers, faceplates, whatever.

My #1 priority for this business is sending 100% of the kit within much less than a week.

Does the sending 5% later break the rules too though?

Dartanion, along with everyone else saying encouraging things too... Thank you!!! It's kept me quite optimistic You're all like a support group for my business woes.

[kedsinger]

Keith,
Does the sending 5% later break the rules too though?
.

Don't get me wrong Loy. A lot of people break that Visa/Mastercard rule. However, what I'm saying is that it seems like you've got a good thing going here. I like the idea that you get the main components out first. If your starting to get a lot of orders, maybe you should take out a business credit card to stock up on inventory(that way you'll get a price break on larger orders too). I'm sure you've already thought of all this...I'm just rambling on. Anyway, I would definately buy from you!
Keith

[arwokc]

Well, what the heck, I may as well give my two cents as well. I tend to kick around my thoughts about the amp I'm going to build for weeks before I commit to it. But, when I commit, I don't want to wait for weeks for my parts. Living in Oklahoma, I easily get three day UPS ground service from anywhere in the U.S. Four days is tops. If I need something quickly, I ask the vendor if they have it in stock and how fast they can ship it. In my opinion, as the consumer, if you don't ask those questions and it takes weeks to get it, it's your own fault. But if you ask those questions and it still takes weeks to get it, that's poor customer service and unforgiveable. Not answering emails or phone calls after the sell it another pet peave. And if you lie to your customer, you should be damned to amp h*ll. It doesn't matter if you are selling a product or a service, if you can't deliver in a timely matter, you are doomed to failure. I have personally witnessed the failure of three businesses in the last ten years because of this. It seems to me that not every dealer in our community is running their business as their primary livelihood, and that's okay. But when your conduct reflects that fact, that is where the problem lies. I work very hard at my job just like everyone else and I take it personally when I send someone my hard earned bucks, and I don't get their best effort in return. I don't believe you can justify poor service as a norm just because everyone else takes that long. It is still a business transaction in which you, as a dealer, are receiving someone elses earnings for a product in good faith.
A prime example is when I ordered a cabinet and chassis kit from a forum member's business. I specifically wanted a certain color cabinet, but settled for the color he had in stock because he stated he could ship the next day. After five days of not receiving the cabinet, I began emailing. I didn't get a response for three more days. I didn't receive the cabinet until three weeks after the transaction for an "in stock" cabinet. I am currently working on another project and since that experience I found out who his supplier was. I ordered my latest cabinet directly from the supplier in the exact size and color I wanted, for less money, and it only took two weeks from the day of the transaction. Now that is customer service. So, in my opinion, you don't have to tolerate poor service. There are too many other people who will actually act like they are happy to have your business.
Okay, I'll get off my soap box now!

[tubetwang]

also keeping each customer up to date, goes a long way...

Things like e-mailing... payment received...parts shipped today...or...sorry, we're a little late but we're working on it...

Good communication is muy importante, nobody like to be kept in the dark...

Go Loy Go!


P.S. had'nt seen Arwokc post when i wrote those lines...we think alike but.

[arwokc]

By the way, I'm glad 18watt.com is back online.

[zaphod_phil]

So am I!

Now going back to your previous post, I think we also need to separate the two issues of poor customer service and long lead times. For instance it's possible that a larger outfit may give a faster delivery time, but the end product or their after-sales service may be not as good. Or possibly a smaller mom n' pop shop may have longer delivery times, but you know you're buying quality. That may not always be the case, but hopefully it illustrates the difference between the two issues. And obviously, in all cases delivery time commitments need to be kept, whether short or long.

[arwokc]

Z.P.
I agree with you 100%. That is why I always ask the fore mentioned questions. That way I don't have unrealistic expectations. If someone has a really superb product and I know it is superior to others, and they have a lead time, I have no problem with that as long as they are honest about their lead time. My problem is when you place an order with someone for an " in stock" item, and they don't ship for ten days after the transaction. I have a real big problem with that. It's almost as if they are non-verbally communicating, "I've got your money, now you have no choice but to wait until it's convenient for me to process your order." Sorry, maybe I'm way out of the ball park on this one, but I'm taking my business else where in that scenario. Yes, I want the best deal possible, but I don't mind paying extra for a better product and better service either.