Transformers
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- Superior Amp Tech
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Re: Transformers
I agree. There is no doubt that different transformers are designed and perform differently to provide a choice of tones. But in this case Tfultz has described the Heyboer as "way louder", in other words a considerable difference in audio output. Which I would not expect from two transformers designed for the same purpose.
Dd
Dd
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Re: Transformers
Found issue. V2 pins 8 and 3. Classic tone still more gain. Heyboer definitely more clean and headroom. Both equally loud.
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Re: Transformers
Next question. My local guitar and amp tech, who definitely knows his craft, builds amps and guitars for some famous folk mentioned definite quality in transformers. A distant last is the clsssic tones. Heyboer pretty good middle of the road. And mercury being without a doubt worth the expense. Any thoughts of those who have built and compared. I’ve heard power transformer doesn’t effect tone but output does considerably.
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- JMPGuitars
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Re: Transformers
It's all hype. Buy into it or not, is up to you. ClassicTone and Heyboer are both great, and so is Mercury Magnetics, except MM cost much more. Edcor and Hammond also put out great transformers, as long as you know what you're getting. Basically any time a store tells you "good better best" - it's all about the price tag, and nothing else.Tfultz wrote: ↑Sat 08/03/19 6:44 pmNext question. My local guitar and amp tech, who definitely knows his craft, builds amps and guitars for some famous folk mentioned definite quality in transformers. A distant last is the clsssic tones. Heyboer pretty good middle of the road. And mercury being without a doubt worth the expense. Any thoughts of those who have built and compared. I’ve heard power transformer doesn’t effect tone but output does considerably.
Regarding your difference in tone between the amps: you should post your voltages as I mentioned previously. The voltages (especially B+) has a big impact on clean headroom vs. overdrive.
Thanks,
Josh
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- Superior Amp Tech
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Re: Transformers
You should read some of the Valve Wizard published information. (Also a former poster here.) His view on power transformers is that they are very significant in the overall tone of an amp in the way it handles the power. He goes so far as to say that what you hear is the power transformer. In other words both transformers matter in the hunt for specific tone.
Nowadays we are spoilt by the good quality of the equipment and components we buy. Almost anything you buy is of a high standard. It was not always the case. Neither is price always a measure of standard. But especially for the tone a person seeks.
So I guess I am saying that the best way to get what is wanted is to do some research into the gear available. Again we are blessed nowadays by the ready access to such information.
Dd
Nowadays we are spoilt by the good quality of the equipment and components we buy. Almost anything you buy is of a high standard. It was not always the case. Neither is price always a measure of standard. But especially for the tone a person seeks.
So I guess I am saying that the best way to get what is wanted is to do some research into the gear available. Again we are blessed nowadays by the ready access to such information.
Dd
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Re: Transformers
Also, to complicate things metals are not the same as what they used to be. All the recycling of metals its hard to get the same purity. It would be interesting to know if it's even possible to get the same today. Maybe we should just save up a bit for that expensive vintage amp and stop worringDaviedawg wrote: ↑Sun 08/04/19 2:12 amYou should read some of the Valve Wizard published information. (Also a former poster here.) His view on power transformers is that they are very significant in the overall tone of an amp in the way it handles the power. He goes so far as to say that what you hear is the power transformer. In other words both transformers matter in the hunt for specific tone.
Nowadays we are spoilt by the good quality of the equipment and components we buy. Almost anything you buy is of a high standard. It was not always the case. Neither is price always a measure of standard. But especially for the tone a person seeks.
So I guess I am saying that the best way to get what is wanted is to do some research into the gear available. Again we are blessed nowadays by the ready access to such information.
Dd
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- crgfrench
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Re: Transformers
I have to disagree with this concept. Metallurgy is a branch of science that has come a long way in the last few decades. If anything, the metals were probably worse back then. But any type of purity can be made now, if that's what the manufacturer wants. Even blacksmiths 100 or 200 years ago could manipulate metal purity. What they can do with metals now is crazy.Rockinrocket wrote: ↑Sun 08/04/19 11:56 pmAlso, to complicate things metals are not the same as what they used to be. All the recycling of metals its hard to get the same purity. It would be interesting to know if it's even possible to get the same today. Maybe we should just save up a bit for that expensive vintage amp and stop worring
Or maybe I agree for the opposite reason? Maybe the metals were inconsistent back in the day, and now they're more capable, or at least much more conscious of what they're using. Who knows. Both sides of this argument are completely speculative.
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- crgfrench
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Re: Transformers
Aside from metal type (M19, M6, M4 etc), here are some factors that can distinguish one transformer from another with the same basic electrical specifications:
1) is the core a strip wound C-type with grain oriented steel or is it a stamped/laminated silicon-iron alloy?
2) is it a single coil shell or a 2 coil core construction? If single is it E&I or T&U layout, and if double is it U&I or L layout?
3) is it sectionalized to reduce leakage inductance, and if so is the sectionalizing vertical, horizontal, or both?
4) are the windings connected in series or parallel?
5) is it interleaved, and if so what is the interleaving pattern?
6) what are the wire guages?
7) are the windings layered or random, and if layered what is the insulation material?
8 ) is the secondary winding(s) paralleled using smaller guage?
9) what is the distribution of the primary winding around the center tap (is it 50% of the windings, 50% of the resistance, or something else)?
10) what specific insulation material is used?
11) what is the bobbin constructed of?
12) does it use a U (conventional traverse) or a Z (flyback) winding style?
13) what is the wire material and wire insulation materlai (polyurethane etc)?
14) is there an air gap - and if so what is the gap length?
15) does it have shielding and if so what type?
1) is the core a strip wound C-type with grain oriented steel or is it a stamped/laminated silicon-iron alloy?
2) is it a single coil shell or a 2 coil core construction? If single is it E&I or T&U layout, and if double is it U&I or L layout?
3) is it sectionalized to reduce leakage inductance, and if so is the sectionalizing vertical, horizontal, or both?
4) are the windings connected in series or parallel?
5) is it interleaved, and if so what is the interleaving pattern?
6) what are the wire guages?
7) are the windings layered or random, and if layered what is the insulation material?
8 ) is the secondary winding(s) paralleled using smaller guage?
9) what is the distribution of the primary winding around the center tap (is it 50% of the windings, 50% of the resistance, or something else)?
10) what specific insulation material is used?
11) what is the bobbin constructed of?
12) does it use a U (conventional traverse) or a Z (flyback) winding style?
13) what is the wire material and wire insulation materlai (polyurethane etc)?
14) is there an air gap - and if so what is the gap length?
15) does it have shielding and if so what type?
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- colossal
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Re: Transformers
^^^ All of these things are of critical importance.
To further complicate matters, some manufacturers will say "AC30 type" or "Plexi type" power transformer. This means it is wound to a generally accepted secondary value but it may or not perform the same as an original. The devil is in the details.
To further complicate matters, some manufacturers will say "AC30 type" or "Plexi type" power transformer. This means it is wound to a generally accepted secondary value but it may or not perform the same as an original. The devil is in the details.
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- crgfrench
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Re: Transformers
Do the amps your tech builds for famous folk sound as good as the amps Mark Bartel builds? He uses Classictone.
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Re: Transformers
I suppose you may be right. When I custom ordered a heyboer transformer I only had a few options for iron and they couldn't tell me what the original iron was in a Marshall. It would probably need to be tested.JMPGuitars wrote: ↑Mon 08/05/19 6:55 amI have to disagree with this concept. Metallurgy is a branch of science that has come a long way in the last few decades. If anything, the metals were probably worse back then. But any type of purity can be made now, if that's what the manufacturer wants. Even blacksmiths 100 or 200 years ago could manipulate metal purity. What they can do with metals now is crazy.Rockinrocket wrote: ↑Sun 08/04/19 11:56 pmAlso, to complicate things metals are not the same as what they used to be. All the recycling of metals its hard to get the same purity. It would be interesting to know if it's even possible to get the same today. Maybe we should just save up a bit for that expensive vintage amp and stop worring
Or maybe I agree for the opposite reason? Maybe the metals were inconsistent back in the day, and now they're more capable, or at least much more conscious of what they're using. Who knows. Both sides of this argument are completely speculative.
Most of these transformer company's woulnt want to go to that amount of detail if they don't stock it and they think your nuts when you ask how close cosmetic details they can get lol
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- crgfrench
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Re: Transformers
I wanted to contextualize "middle of the road", sonically. So I took another listen to the Top Hat Club Royale and the Splawn Quickrod, which both use Heyboer iron. Woah -- middle of the road is F&@#!ng awesome.
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