effects loop vs noise

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Bieworm
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effects loop vs noise

Post by Bieworm »

When I put my effects in front of my 18 watters I get a serious amount of hiss and noises.
I checked every pedal, and it comes down to the delay and reverb pedals making the noise.
It's not the daisy chaining. It has a voodoo lab power supply. Tried delay and reverb alone with battery power. It's a RE20 from boss. So that one is always in the chain, no true bypass. The noise is even worse when the pedal is NOT on. Oscillation and a subtile high pitch sound...
Before adding the effects loop on my amps.. do you reckon if it will help? Or is that noise going to be amplified near the amount that I have with them in front of the amp? Is the PI going to boost that noise a lot?

Or should I look for a solution by using a TB looper for those 2 pedals?

I just have no idea if an effects loop will help.

For the record: the amps are pretty quiet without effects in the front. + the same effects in front of my Vibro King ain't nearly as noisy as the 18 watters...
And it is not from bad or low quality cables (all planet waves)

thx for the feedback

BW
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Re: effects loop vs noise

Post by JMPGuitars »

An amplifier gain stage amplifies anything you throw at it.

If you throw noise through it from a noisy pedal, it will also be amplified.

Now look at the schematic and see what the difference is between running from the front of the amp or the effects loop.
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Re: effects loop vs noise

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JMPGuitars wrote:
Thu 04/30/20 6:49 am
An amplifier gain stage amplifies anything you throw at it.

If you throw noise through it from a noisy pedal, it will also be amplified.

Now look at the schematic and see what the difference is between running from the front of the amp or the effects loop.
It looks like its past the gain stages in the preamp and will be amplified by the power tubes. The powertubes amplify too I guess? But to what extent compared to the gain stages?.

I also ordered a boss PSU230S so I can supply power to the RE20 exclusively. I don't think there is anything wrong wit the pedal because I replaced my Wampler faux tape echo for the RE20 because the Wampler was too noisy. Turned out to be the daisy chaining I had at the time.. So tried the wampler now too and it's even more noisy.
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Re: effects loop vs noise

Post by JMPGuitars »

Bieworm wrote:
Thu 04/30/20 7:02 am
It looks like its past the gain stages in the preamp and will be amplified by the power tubes. The powertubes amplify too I guess? But to what extent compared to the gain stages?.
Every stage including the power tubes amplify, it is an amplifier after all. ;)

Think of it this way. If you have 4 scoops of ice cream (2 preamp tubes, 1 PI, and 1 power amp stage), and you put them all in one bowl, that's a big bowl of ice cream. If you only have 2 scoops of ice cream (PI, and power amp stage), you're then shoving much less ice cream in your face.

If your pedal is noisy, don't give it too much ice cream.
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Re: effects loop vs noise

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JMPGuitars wrote:
Thu 04/30/20 7:26 am
Bieworm wrote:
Thu 04/30/20 7:02 am
It looks like its past the gain stages in the preamp and will be amplified by the power tubes. The powertubes amplify too I guess? But to what extent compared to the gain stages?.
Every stage including the power tubes amplify, it is an amplifier after all. ;)

Think of it this way. If you have 4 scoops of ice cream (2 preamp tubes, 1 PI, and 1 power amp stage), and you put them all in one bowl, that's a big bowl of ice cream. If you only have 2 scoops of ice cream (PI, and power amp stage), you're then shoving much less ice cream in your face.

If your pedal is noisy, don't give it too much ice cream.
Nice metaphor..
But doubtfully the scoops will be equally in size, and that's what I try to find out... the 4 stages won't take 25% each for their account. I would be glad when the first 2 scoops would take 80% of the noise level, leaving the last 20% for the PI and PT's.. but again, I have no idea...
Will have to experiment on the classic I guess.. the TMB trem stays as is, until I am sure it's worth the soldering heat :)
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Re: effects loop vs noise

Post by JMPGuitars »

Bieworm wrote:
Thu 04/30/20 7:40 am
Nice metaphor..
But doubtfully the scoops will be equally in size, and that's what I try to find out... the 4 stages won't take 25% each for their account. I would be glad when the first 2 scoops would take 80% of the noise level, leaving the last 20% for the PI and PT's.. but again, I have no idea...
Will have to experiment on the classic I guess.. the TMB trem stays as is, until I am sure it's worth the soldering heat :)
Less is less.

The Tremolo TMB is a better candidate since it's single channel.

In the classic I think you might need to use the tremolo side also, but I'm not sure.
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Re: effects loop vs noise

Post by geoff 1965 »

still at experimental stage with my 6V6 project and i've got the effects loop from the downloads patched in with both normal and TMB channels using the same half of the phase inverter so i can add effect to both channels.
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Re: effects loop vs noise

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geoff 1965 wrote:
Thu 04/30/20 10:12 am
still at experimental stage with my 6V6 project and i've got the effects loop from the downloads patched in with both normal and TMB channels using the same half of the phase inverter so i can add effect to both channels.
That's sneaky! NOW you told us ? :P
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