Can I use 60watts speakers with 18W British Amp

[davemojo]

Hi All

I'm building an 18W British 1974 original circuit amp. I have a deal with a pair of Celestion G12 vintage 30 both for 90 euros

The amp chassis is housed into a bluesbreaker combo cabinet that can host 2x 12" speakers

The cabinet is self build using nearly the same original dimensions it is slightly deeper (depth size)

The amp is going to be used with an organ hammond dual manual

Can the 18W amp use efficiently the Celestion G12 vintage 30? Those are 60watts speakers aren't they too large in power maybe?

Are they any good at all?

Thanks

[JMPGuitars]

Hi All

I'm building an 18W British 1974 original circuit amp. I have a deal with a pair of Celestion G12 vintage 30 both for 90 euros

The amp chassis is housed into a bluesbreaker combo cabinet that can host 2x 12" speakers

The cabinet is self build using nearly the same original dimensions it is slightly deeper (depth size)

The amp is going to be used with an organ hammond dual manual

Can the 18W amp use efficiently the Celestion G12 vintage 30? Those are 60watts speakers aren't they too large in power maybe?

Are they any good at all?

Thanks

There's no such thing as too large in power for speakers. The difference in wattage affects the amount of desirable speaker distortion. Significantly higher than amp wattage = less speaker distortion.

Those would work, but Vintage 30s are usually too bright for these circuits. That deal isn't good enough to combat the icepicks in your ears.

On average I use 50W speakers because that's what's available in what I like, and because I build a lot of 36W amps. For an 18W amp, I'd prefer 20 to 25W. But no icepicks.

Thanks,
Josh

[davemojo]

Hi All

I'm building an 18W British 1974 original circuit amp. I have a deal with a pair of Celestion G12 vintage 30 both for 90 euros

The amp chassis is housed into a bluesbreaker combo cabinet that can host 2x 12" speakers

The cabinet is self build using nearly the same original dimensions it is slightly deeper (depth size)

The amp is going to be used with an organ hammond dual manual

Can the 18W amp use efficiently the Celestion G12 vintage 30? Those are 60watts speakers aren't they too large in power maybe?

Are they any good at all?

Thanks

There's no such thing as too large in power for speakers. The difference in wattage affects the amount of desirable speaker distortion. Significantly higher than amp wattage = less speaker distortion.

Those would work, but Vintage 30s are usually too bright for these circuits. That deal isn't good enough to combat the icepicks in your ears.

On average I use 50W speakers because that's what's available in what I like, and because I build a lot of 36W amps. For an 18W amp, I'd prefer 20 to 25W. But no icepicks.

Thanks,
Josh

Thanks Josh I agree and I understand your explanation.

The other option I have in hand is a pair of G12H I think those are 30Watts, I believe they should be suiting perfectly

[JMPGuitars]

Thanks Josh I agree and I understand your explanation.

The other option I have in hand is a pair of G12H I think those are 30Watts, I believe they should be suiting perfectly

G12H is a popular choice.

[ViperDoc]

The Celestion G12H-30 is a fabulous speaker. I have one in a Dr.Z Z-Best 212 cab along with a G12M-65 Creamback--a nice pairing--and one in a Dr.Z Maz 18 NR combo, both great sounding amps.

Higher wattage speakers will simply offer less speaker breakup to the tone and sound cleaner. Dealer's choice.

[Bieworm]

I have 2 tremolo TMB amps. One with an old g12h30 and one with a G12M65 creamback. Both sound awesome, but the old one is... well I never heard better tone

[davemojo]

I have 2 tremolo TMB amps. One with an old g12h30 and one with a G12M65 creamback. Both sound awesome, but the old one is... well I never heard better tone

I have seen on eBay some old vintage from 1968, but frankly is a matter of money too, can't spend 500 Euros or more on some original vintage, I believe you that they sound better, probably the material used isn't the same from the one made today even though they seem to be looking exactly the same.

I found and getting 2x 12" G12H both on open box unused or at least they claim so from picture they seem immaculate out of box. The asking price is 160 Euros for both + delivery on Marktplaats Netherlands

[ViperDoc]

Another dark horse speaker option is the British Vintage 25W 12-inch speaker sold by Mojotone. It’s a bargain priced Greenback ceramic magnet variant and sounds very good, IMO.

https://www.mojotone.com/Speakers_x/Moj ... MS-25W-1-5

[dbharris]

For organ, I would get a set of speakers with 55hz bass cones. The Heritage G12H has those, but the Classic G12H Anniversary has 75hz lead cones.

I have a Heritage G12H in a 1x12 and it is an awesome speaker.

-Dan

[Bieworm]

I find the heritage g12h30 sound in the same ballpark as the G12M65 creamback. In that case I'd choose the creamback. It's a lot lighter.
Anyway, on marktplaats there's a classic lead 80.now that's a really awesome speaker. Bogner uses them in the shiva. I pair one in my latest build with a g12h30 anniversary.
https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/muziek-en- ... ousPage=lr

16109102535431648484445704149566.jpg

[davemojo]

Are those worth to buy for an 18w British style amp?

x2 Celestion G12L 12" inch 4 ohm guitar speakers 40W

I can get both for 100 Euros on eBay

[Bieworm]

If you want to build a great amp you have to realize it needs a great pair of speakers. The impact on the sound is too significant.
Don't settle for less... think about it... the G12L was the valvestate standard baffle. Which audiophile is longing for that sound? When I switch on my amps I want the 'OMG' sensation.. not the 'oh..well...whatever' vibe

[TriodeLuvr]

THERE's a speaker I won't buy.

[Bieworm]

THERE's a speaker I won't buy.

I have a UK version and I love it

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[davemojo]

Great

I am going to buy the G12L UK version new 120 Euros for the 16 Ohm version or 136 Euros for the 8 Ohm version I will buy one now and another later like this I'm sure I can't go wrong, of course I must now see how it sounds with the organ, but yes quality, those from tonefactory nl are from UK so should be a good quality

[JMPGuitars]

Great

I am going to buy the G12L UK version new 120 Euros for the 16 Ohm version or 136 Euros for the 8 Ohm version I will buy one now and another later like this I'm sure I can't go wrong, of course I must now see how it sounds with the organ, but yes quality, those from tonefactory nl are from UK so should be a good quality

Food for thought: you're likely to need to experiment with speakers. You might get lucky with a purchase like this, but you might not. I would look at alternative brands, not just Celestion. I prefer Eminence or WGS or many others over Celestion. Celestion is charging for a name, not so much speaker quality. Be patient and keep an eye on the used market too.

[Bieworm]

I don't think there is a huge difference between the chinese and uk celestions.

[davemojo]

Great

I am going to buy the G12L UK version new 120 Euros for the 16 Ohm version or 136 Euros for the 8 Ohm version I will buy one now and another later like this I'm sure I can't go wrong, of course I must now see how it sounds with the organ, but yes quality, those from tonefactory nl are from UK so should be a good quality

Food for thought: you're likely to need to experiment with speakers. You might get lucky with a purchase like this, but you might not. I would look at alternative brands, not just Celestion. I prefer Eminence or WGS or many others over Celestion. Celestion is charging for a name, not so much speaker quality. Be patient and keep an eye on the used market too.

I admit I am now starting to get confuse, I opened this forum query to clarify my doubts, and indeed all is much more clear than before, but again the choice is now difficult since it all depends and there is no one straight answer.

Some are saying Celestion is way to go, probably if you are a guitarist and depending on the music style.

Some other saying Chinese or UK Celestion are the same, probably are since as for many other things I found often time Chinese stuff to be good in quality.

I will also look at other brands to see what I can find more suitable for an Organ sound, however since Jon Lord was using a Marshall JMC amp a stack plugged to his B3 and sounded distorted with fabulous sound for that Organ music style, the speakers used were Celestion as those came default on Marshall

Definitely I will go for a 30 watts max speaker need to choose what

[JMPGuitars]

I admit I am now starting to get confuse, I opened this forum query to clarify my doubts, and indeed all is much more clear than before, but again the choice is now difficult since it all depends and there is no one straight answer.

Some are saying Celestion is way to go, probably if you are a guitarist and depending on the music style.

Some other saying Chinese or UK Celestion are the same, probably are since as for many other things I found often time Chinese stuff to be good in quality.

I will also look at other brands to see what I can find more suitable for an Organ sound, however since Jon Lord was using a Marshall JMC amp a stack plugged to his B3 and sounded distorted with fabulous sound for that Organ music style, the speakers used were Celestion as those came default on Marshall

Definitely I will go for a 30 watts max speaker need to choose what

I'm not opposed to products from China or anything like that. My issue with Celestion is that they're simply not as good as their name used to be, and plenty of brands are better. But if you're going to send a speaker to be made in China at a significantly lower price point, why did the prices for those speakers generally go up? That's not China's fault, that's the Celestion corporation's business choices.

In any case, this subject matter is 90% subjective. Everybody will have different opinions on it. The part that is not subjective is the wattage. 30 to 50 watts is fine. The wattage part is a measurable difference in how much speaker distortion is generated. The difference between 30 to 50W isn't super fantastically different or likely that noticeable at all.

Going beyond the subjectivity, look at tone charts for the speakers you're interested in. Anything with big spikes above 1K or 2K will pierce your ears. Compare the charts to Greenbacks or Greenback clones, which are the most favored speaker for these circuits (though not mine, I prefer the WGS Blackhawk the most currently).

Thanks,
Josh

[davemojo]

Hey All,

So something to share and this is not just about amp built, speakers and how it all sound but clarifications since people sometime are mentally convinced of things that are not true in a way, but because there are voices around saying some stuff people believe it.

Celestion G12M 25 UK made vs Chinese version

My friend is a guitarist it plays rock/blues since 1993 27 years on the music field, plays live and it jam sometime with us. Is also a guitar teacher and sound Engineer.

He has all kind of Amp from Marshall JMC to reissue of Bluesbreaker to self build using both UK and Chinese version and guys, believe or not there is not audible difference in tone quality, we tested them using the same bluesbreaker amp. He knew it already, I don't since I am not so much into Amp except I am getting crazy for it to the point I am playing guitar again.

I carefully analyzed the construction material and honestly couldn't see any differences, after digging and speaking with some people and soughing some online reliable resource I am firmly convinced that:

the thing to keep in mind is that the production moved to china purely based on cost, same machines used to make them and so on. There is literally no difference.