Tremolo TMB comparisons
Moderators: zaphod_phil, Daviedawg, Graydon, CurtissRobin, colossal
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Tremolo TMB comparisons
Josh, Jack.. to not hijack the thread where I mentioned the original tremolo TMB sounding the best of the 3 I have, I started this new thread.
Today I compared all 3 with 3 speakers. An old g12h30, a classic lead and the eminence reignmaker. I was not dillusional when saying the original sounds best. It just does.. no matter what speaker.
It's no huge difference, but it sounds woodier and Jimi'er... and a tad crunchier but in a smoother way.
The differences are:
1. 8.2k dropping resistor node C to D. The others have 4.7k
2. Voltage divider on V2a is 470k to grid / 10k from grid with an A500k in series. The others havevthe 470k to grid / 47k from grid in series with A250k to ground. The 250+47k adds up to 300k... I measured my favorit setting at 410k in the original.
Not sure if this all makes the difference. Could still be the combo cab type or the brand of components. I'm going to compare voltages tomorrow.. but I thought I'd put this info in the group for now.
Today I compared all 3 with 3 speakers. An old g12h30, a classic lead and the eminence reignmaker. I was not dillusional when saying the original sounds best. It just does.. no matter what speaker.
It's no huge difference, but it sounds woodier and Jimi'er... and a tad crunchier but in a smoother way.
The differences are:
1. 8.2k dropping resistor node C to D. The others have 4.7k
2. Voltage divider on V2a is 470k to grid / 10k from grid with an A500k in series. The others havevthe 470k to grid / 47k from grid in series with A250k to ground. The 250+47k adds up to 300k... I measured my favorit setting at 410k in the original.
Not sure if this all makes the difference. Could still be the combo cab type or the brand of components. I'm going to compare voltages tomorrow.. but I thought I'd put this info in the group for now.
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- JMPGuitars
- Super Duper Admin
- Posts: 3979
- Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
- Location: South Central, MA
- Contact:
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
Voltages and components then. But the real question is if you could tell the difference blind on a recording.Bieworm wrote: ↑Sat 04/24/21 2:37 pmJosh, Jack.. to not hijack the thread where I mentioned the original tremolo TMB sounding the best of the 3 I have, I started this new thread.
Today I compared all 3 with 3 speakers. An old g12h30, a classic lead and the eminence reignmaker. I was not dillusional when saying the original sounds best. It just does.. no matter what speaker.
It's no huge difference, but it sounds woodier and Jimi'er... and a tad crunchier but in a smoother way.
The differences are:
1. 8.2k dropping resistor node C to D. The others have 4.7k
2. Voltage divider on V2a is 470k to grid / 10k from grid with an A500k in series. The others havevthe 470k to grid / 47k from grid in series with A250k to ground. The 250+47k adds up to 300k... I measured my favorit setting at 410k in the original.
Not sure if this all makes the difference. Could still be the combo cab type or the brand of components. I'm going to compare voltages tomorrow.. but I thought I'd put this info in the group for now.
1 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
- TriodeLuvr
- Frequent poster
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Tue 10/16/18 11:19 am
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
It would be interesting to apply a variable B+ to those first two stages, just to see how the tone and compression change.
Jack
Jack
1 x
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
A recording with my phone? I doubt that.. it compensates too much. But in front of the amps? Yes! I'm really sure.JMPGuitars wrote: ↑Sat 04/24/21 3:15 pmVoltages and components then. But the real question is if you could tell the difference blind on a recording.Bieworm wrote: ↑Sat 04/24/21 2:37 pmJosh, Jack.. to not hijack the thread where I mentioned the original tremolo TMB sounding the best of the 3 I have, I started this new thread.
Today I compared all 3 with 3 speakers. An old g12h30, a classic lead and the eminence reignmaker. I was not dillusional when saying the original sounds best. It just does.. no matter what speaker.
It's no huge difference, but it sounds woodier and Jimi'er... and a tad crunchier but in a smoother way.
The differences are:
1. 8.2k dropping resistor node C to D. The others have 4.7k
2. Voltage divider on V2a is 470k to grid / 10k from grid with an A500k in series. The others havevthe 470k to grid / 47k from grid in series with A250k to ground. The 250+47k adds up to 300k... I measured my favorit setting at 410k in the original.
Not sure if this all makes the difference. Could still be the combo cab type or the brand of components. I'm going to compare voltages tomorrow.. but I thought I'd put this info in the group for now.
And it's not that I'm in favor for it.. I'm actually biased towards the 36W..
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- JMPGuitars
- Super Duper Admin
- Posts: 3979
- Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
- Location: South Central, MA
- Contact:
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
I like the 36W I made also. That PCB worked out great. I need to record my demo already so I can post them for sale, but I've been a little busy.
0 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
I will make that video for you too. Just need the right moment and in the mean while thinking about what riffs to play. It's gotta be something good to represent what the tremolo TMB stands for..
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- JMPGuitars
- Super Duper Admin
- Posts: 3979
- Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
- Location: South Central, MA
- Contact:
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
Yeah, that would be good. You're way more into tremolo than I am. I'm probably gonna do something funky.
1 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
Josh.. that's the key ingredient. The 400k to ground sounds crunchier and creamier imho. Ok, you loose some clean on the dial in the sweep of the gain pot... but honestly I set the gain always between 2 O'clock and full gain.
So I tried putting a 100k in series with the 47k and the 250k pot.
Try it. And let me know what you think.
If it's true than we can add a switch on the back to take it out of the circuit for those rare clean moments
So I tried putting a 100k in series with the 47k and the 250k pot.
Try it. And let me know what you think.
If it's true than we can add a switch on the back to take it out of the circuit for those rare clean moments
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
Here is a link to the videoclip I made just now. I think it's a great one!!!!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bonobnzorrk6s ... 10425?dl=0
It's the 36W 6L6 with the 400k to ground on the gain pot. Speaker is an Eminence Reignmaker 8 Ohm. WTF man!!!!
I'm pretty amazed how good the sound quality of that stupid Samsung phone is when I record stuff with it
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bonobnzorrk6s ... 10425?dl=0
It's the 36W 6L6 with the 400k to ground on the gain pot. Speaker is an Eminence Reignmaker 8 Ohm. WTF man!!!!
I'm pretty amazed how good the sound quality of that stupid Samsung phone is when I record stuff with it
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- TriodeLuvr
- Frequent poster
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Tue 10/16/18 11:19 am
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
Do you have access to the settings? Dropbox is asking me to download the entire 1/2 Gb file instead of playing it.
Jack
Jack
0 x
- JMPGuitars
- Super Duper Admin
- Posts: 3979
- Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
- Location: South Central, MA
- Contact:
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
Thanks for the demo! I posted it here (with Bieworm's permission for anybody wondering ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzW-oPHK7T8
For anybody on this site interested in the PCBs, please message me directly, especially if you're outside of the US.
PCB Specs:
Dimensions: 12.1" x 3.75" (307.34mm x 95.25mm)
Thickness: 1/8" (3.2mm)
Material: FR4-TG170
Surface Finish: ENIG(2µ")
Solder Mask: Matt Blue
Copper: 2oz
RoHS: Yes
Version: 1.36.9
Thanks!
Josh
For anybody on this site interested in the PCBs, please message me directly, especially if you're outside of the US.
PCB Specs:
Dimensions: 12.1" x 3.75" (307.34mm x 95.25mm)
Thickness: 1/8" (3.2mm)
Material: FR4-TG170
Surface Finish: ENIG(2µ")
Solder Mask: Matt Blue
Copper: 2oz
RoHS: Yes
Version: 1.36.9
Thanks!
Josh
2 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
Thanks Josh! Hope this demo can convince people they just need that PCB
Edit: I don't know if it's due to the PCB, or due to the fact I built that amp 3x... but this one is absolutely noise free. Maybe it's the combination of both
Edit: I don't know if it's due to the PCB, or due to the fact I built that amp 3x... but this one is absolutely noise free. Maybe it's the combination of both
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- JMPGuitars
- Super Duper Admin
- Posts: 3979
- Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
- Location: South Central, MA
- Contact:
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
Definitely both. The PCB is designed to reduce noise, but a poorly built amp could mess that up. So, nice work.
1 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
I finally took the time to do a search for the Tube Town transformers I use.. and am very pleased with, both in build quality and appearance.
Apparently they are built by inMADout, an Italian company that claims to use high quality materials, focussed on the sonic properties of audio use. I don't know if that's all commercial talk, but my experience with their products is very good and the prices charged are hard to beat. My 1st 18 watt had both a PT an OT from Hammond. Those are just fine, but it puzzles me that they're not covering the wires when they paint 'em black. It was pretty messy to work with those. Paint chips all over the workbench, hard to determine the wire color for some, especially the colored wires with a black pinstripe on it.
so for European builders I can really recommend the inMADout transformers. The are distributed by Tube Town
https://www.inmadout.com/index.asp
https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/
EDIT: I must admit when I found out they were Italian I felt a little worried. IDK how you guys think of Italian made stuff, but in my book that's synonymous for: design, overly designed, plastic, cheap made and cheap feel,... rather focussed on appearance than quality. Some things perform really well, but for a very limited timespan. I remember my cousins' wedding.. he hired an oldtimer ferrari , had to let the engine run on idle in front of the town hall, out of fear the d@mn thing wouldn't start afterwards. Right before he had to bring it back to the rental company the passenger door just fell off
but like I said, the transformers are built really well and are keeping up with my abuse for the last 12 months
Apparently they are built by inMADout, an Italian company that claims to use high quality materials, focussed on the sonic properties of audio use. I don't know if that's all commercial talk, but my experience with their products is very good and the prices charged are hard to beat. My 1st 18 watt had both a PT an OT from Hammond. Those are just fine, but it puzzles me that they're not covering the wires when they paint 'em black. It was pretty messy to work with those. Paint chips all over the workbench, hard to determine the wire color for some, especially the colored wires with a black pinstripe on it.
so for European builders I can really recommend the inMADout transformers. The are distributed by Tube Town
https://www.inmadout.com/index.asp
https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/
EDIT: I must admit when I found out they were Italian I felt a little worried. IDK how you guys think of Italian made stuff, but in my book that's synonymous for: design, overly designed, plastic, cheap made and cheap feel,... rather focussed on appearance than quality. Some things perform really well, but for a very limited timespan. I remember my cousins' wedding.. he hired an oldtimer ferrari , had to let the engine run on idle in front of the town hall, out of fear the d@mn thing wouldn't start afterwards. Right before he had to bring it back to the rental company the passenger door just fell off
but like I said, the transformers are built really well and are keeping up with my abuse for the last 12 months
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
Videoclip of my 18W Tremolo TMB Reverb with the old 70s G12h30
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ob5y6fcz82l72 ... everb?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ob5y6fcz82l72 ... everb?dl=0
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- JMPGuitars
- Super Duper Admin
- Posts: 3979
- Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
- Location: South Central, MA
- Contact:
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
Very nice! But you need a youtube channel. Or at least make sure the file name has .mp4 at the end of it so people can preview it without downloading it.Bieworm wrote: ↑Sat 05/01/21 2:44 pmVideoclip of my 18W Tremolo TMB Reverb with the old 70s G12h30
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ob5y6fcz82l72 ... everb?dl=0
0 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
2 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
-
- Verbose poster
- Posts: 1118
- Joined: Mon 01/04/16 3:52 pm
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: Tremolo TMB comparisons
75Hz. Not important to me... I haven't heard a better speaker ever!!
0 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- TriodeLuvr
- Frequent poster
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Tue 10/16/18 11:19 am