What Every Newcomer Should Know...

18watt-specific Tech Talk - Building, Fixing, Parts, Mods...

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Jeph
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Post by Jeph »

When building my fist :baby: I spent TONS of time looking for hi-res pictures of certain parts of the amp guts and cab construction. A separate gallery folder for users to upload large, detailed pics of their builds (along with comments?) might be useful.
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Post by NitroLiq »

EBE, I added you to the earlier post of part suppliers.

I think the biggest problem as far as organization goes is that there are just too many layouts which are entirely too close....18 tmb, 18 tmb with richie's corrections, another version with richie's corrections, JA's version based on the original with Richie's corrections, multiple BOMs, etc. We should trim this down so I propose one default working layout for folks to look at, similar to what Richie and I did with the new 36 watt folder. If we include variations, the person offering the "varying" layout should supply the differences between their version and the default layout.

TMB Folder:

- Default TMB Schematic
- Default TMB Layout
- Default TMB Voltage Chart
- Default TMB BOM
- Default TMB tweakers table

TMB Variations: (nested folder within TMB)

- SIII
- JA
- etc.

I've mentioned this in another thread but I'm currently illustrating an 18-watt tmb version of the new 36 watt....it has the tubes in the proper place like the SIII but also has richie's push-pull pot for lifting the tone circuit and feedback switch. If folks generally like the idea, we can use that as the default. All the older layouts can be put in another "archive" folder or something. Just an idea.
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Post by s2 »

Nitro,

Good call, but we need to decide what the default TMB is. I seem to recall Richie saying the TMB schems and layouts to not match his design. That's kind of what led to the Tsunami and then the sIII. I built the TMB according to the layout drawing and didn't really care for it. So, I struck out on my own...

[edit]

I just finished reading your post and realized you are way ahead of me. Disregard.
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Post by dartanion »

Might we discuss a section for "non-18watt amps?" I know we've brought it up before.
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Post by rjgtr »

dartanion wrote:Might we discuss a section for "non-18watt amps?" I know we've brought it up before.
I think we should be careful here and they should be variations on the 18 watt theme. Marshall 10 and 20 watters and Park 20 watters, variations using an 18 watt power amp, like the high gain amp I have in my gallery, the 18 watt preamp with a 6V6 output stage, etc. To me the TMB is this kind of variation.

What we don't want is endless Tweeds or amps based on other brands or Plexis, JCM800s etc diluting the main thrust of the forum which is the 1974 and variants.
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Post by zaphod_phil »

We probably could have one folder for both the 20W and 1930/10W.

Anyway, as I have a soft spot for the 18W Lite family, here is what I would suggest for that category:

------------------------------------------------------

Original 18W Lite (non-trem 18W)
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... tit&lid=12

18W Lite II (Lite with Trem Channel tone control)
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... tit&lid=13
Ramiro's variant Parts List:
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... it&lid=145
Eric Nyberg's Layout:
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... it&lid=101
Attilio's Layout:
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... it&lid=100

18W Lite IIb (Lite II with improvements)
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... it&lid=141
Uses Lite II layouts

18W Lite III (Fixed tone control & Plexish PI)
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... tit&lid=99
Layout:
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... tit&lid=94

Minimalist (No tone control & SS recto)
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... tit&lid=10
Mark Huss' Layout:
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... tit&lid=95
Nick Prionas' Layout:
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... tit&lid=96

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I would want to place my mongrel Lite IIb/TMB (Higher gain & TMB controls) version in the folder for experimental variations, until a few more have been built, and maybe we come up with a nicer looking schematic. There is no need to identify the Lite IIa in this list seperately, as the Lite IIb includes the Lite IIa mods and the schematic identifies all the changes betwen the Lite II revisions.
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Post by ajkimba »

I also think a proven layout of "all" schematic's should be included right under the schematic.

Al
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Post by zaphod_phil »

Where one exists....
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Post by Easto »

I was about to post a huge reply to this (being a newbie and knowing my requirements, lol) but I thought I'd trim it down a bit.

I agree with making the schematic section easier to read and trimming it down a bit. I've spent many a night going back and forth looking at the different schematics trying to figure out and see what the almost invisable variations are. I like the suggestion about explaining the basic differences between each model and what to expect from that particular build. I would add this explanation at the beginning of the schematic section. So, when someone asks these questions in a thread they could be pointed to this section.
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Post by novemberrain »

dartanion wrote:Might we discuss a section for "non-18watt amps?" I know we've brought it up before.
Yeah. Sign me up for that one!

For instance an original trem preamp can be stuck in front of a single ended power amp for less than 18 watts. So can a TMB.

Flip it around and you can build an 18 watt Dumble. Or an 18 watt SLO if that's your bag.

Then there's my fave, the good ol' November. Heck, it's an 18 watt Plexi!

Then there a numerous strays who wander in with various solid state Marshalls and assorted reissue junk that could be prime candidates for a ground up rebuild.

IMHO it's inevitable that anyone who builds a successful 18 watt will build something else sooner or later.
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Modules and Vendors / Parts Suppliers

Post by jem »

Would nice if the members could rate the parts supplier / vendors and leave a brief comment / review.
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What this site need!

Post by NoGuarantees »

Ok now you have got it started. I have only been coming to this fourm for the past few months. I feel this site is wonderful..... To those who come here on a regulay basis and know all the terms. This is a list of suggestion that I believe will make this site more user-frendly esp. for noobs.

I am a huge DIY kid, every little thing I do I prefer to build it myself. I get a huge satisfaction out of knowing that "this was created by me." My friends actually used to get mad at me because my first intentions were always to build something myself instead of just going out and buying it. This mentailty is what helped me perservere through the toughness of the 18 watt (although I dont think it was that hard). I found this site through a link on a DIY stompbox site (go figure) and I thought it was absolutly amazing that you guys built there own amps. I NEVER thought that was possible for the avarage joe like myself to accomplish such a feat. Which leads me to my first point.

(1)These amps are possible for anyone to build! You dont have to have a garage full of tube testing equipment and hi-tech machinery. But! You do need to understand the saftey risks!

(2) PUT THE AMPS OUT IN THE OPEN. Im sorry, but I have to say that the downloads section sucks. When I first came here I thought the only amp you guys made was the "18 watt," and I said to myself, "Dangit I wish there was an amp that had a tone stack and more gain than that 18 watt, Oh well I guess this is one thing im gonna miss out on." I knew nothing about the TMB untill I came back to look at the amps again because they intrigued me.


(3) Just like the AX84 site let everybody know what the projects are in their bare-bones. Give a Section possibly on the home page with one mabe two of each type of amp. What I mean is just The MAIN 18 watt layout and schematic. NO MODS. And the MAIN TMB layout and schematic.

(4) TMB = Treble middle bass. Tell everyboidy this. For the longest time I looked at the posts and people said things like "have you looked at the TMB amp?" And I was thinking "TMB? What the hell is TMB?"

(5) It would be great to have a "first-timers" section explaining everything about this site. Give the lowdown on what the amps are how they sound and what it takes to build them. Have a section on the terms that are used on the site suce as "cathode follower" and "plate, grid and filiments." Answer questions such as "what are the primaries on a transformer?" and even "how do I wire up a switch?" Also, this is a good section to mention supplyers of kits for those who just want to follow printed instructions.

(6) Keep everything at the lowest possible "opinion based." What I mean is that the amp should be the core and then I can build it to how I want it to sound. I dont want an amp that already has YOUR mods in it; I want the base then I will put MY mods in it. They do this well at AX84. They have the base amp and thats all. Just the amp nothing more. If you want to look at the mods, they are neatly catagorized under the core amp. On the 18 watt site you have to fish through all the extras to find the main layout. Then TRY to find a schematic that matches.

(7) make sure people know what their getting into. These amps cost money and there likely not to work the first time(although that was not my case). These amps take hard work and a lot of it. I sourced all the parts myself, constructed my own chassis, borrowed a drill press, and did all the work basically off of pictures and the word of mouth that this amp is killer. Heck I could have been building a nuke for all I knew.


Now! this is the part that I tell you guys where things are good! You guys are very kind and quick to respond. You realize how awsome the amps are and want to share them therefore you help the noobs. You answered a bunch of my stupid question in the beginning whithout mocking me. This site has almost everything it need. Just not in the right spots.
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zaphod_phil
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Re: What this site need!

Post by zaphod_phil »

Easto wrote: I would add this explanation at the beginning of the schematic section. So, when someone asks these questions in a thread they could be pointed to this section.
I believe the idea here is to have this information permanently visible in a "sticky" thread.
NoGuarantees wrote: ...I'm sorry, but I have to say that the downloads section sucks.
I agree. I have problems finding stuff in there - and I know what I'm looking for! Again this Sticky thread would list the various schematics and layout with brief descriptions.
NoGuarantees wrote:Just like the AX84 site let everybody know what the projects are in their bare-bones. Give a Section possibly on the home page with one mabe two of each type of amp. What I mean is just The MAIN 18 watt layout and schematic. NO MODS. And the MAIN TMB layout and schematic.
Having this sticky thread would clear all that up, as there would be separate headings for each main family, each with their own variants.
NoGuarantees wrote:TMB = Treble middle bass.
That also needs to be said in the TMB section of the Sticky thread.
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Post by bevins »

There is a FAQ section. I think it could be revamped to contain alot of noobie questions that could answer many repeated questions.

example:
Q. What is TMB?
A. Treble-Middle-Bass

I think we should compile a list of noobie questions and place them there. This would be an easy and good start. This is a place a first timer would go. I did look, and was a little dissapointed. Then I continued on and never went back to that page.

this is something that could be done right away and would help tremendously.


Heck, a little research and work with the search option would render a decent list to start.

Maybe start a thread to compile new questions and answers.

Bob
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Post by NitroLiq »

I have to agree. It's great to have a sticky but alot of this stuff should be put into a revamped FAQ as that's where the typical web user will go to when trying to get the basics. The downloads section doesn't bother me that much other than the fact that it's a bit cluttered and needs organizing in order to make things easier to find. I do like the way AX84 devotes individual pages with description, images, and clips to each amp type....then again, they have many more variations of amps where we have more variations of the same amp so it may not be practical but it does make finding what you're looking for easier. It also depends on time constraints as something like that may require re-thinking the entire site organization and where the download section fits in. I'm sure Gabi's really busy with his amp business so a huge site revamp might not be feasible.. A quick fix would be to build those individual amp pages and link to them from the FAQ and the Homepage....have a box on the homepage to the effect of "First time here? Check out the 18 watt FAQ or have links to individual amp pages."

Pete
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jem
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wiki?

Post by jem »

Why not use one of the wiki blocks for php-nuke? Let the collective knowledge of the members edit and update it, take the load off the admin's? (after it's set up)

Here's one
http://supersims.sourceforge.net/modul ... d&cid=6
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Post by MooreCowbelle »

I'm with Jem on this one (even tho he looks kinda scary...)

A wiki-style collection of amp knowledge from the illuminati would be marvelous for the uninitiated, as well as preserving the vast array of amp-knowledge in a nicely organized manner.

Just think, a Wikipedia for All Things Amplified..
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stuff in my garage

Post by rick32559 »

I forgot to mention that I have sprague filter caps that mount in tube sockets still in the original boxes. Never seen these before. My buddy Steve was cleaning all his audio stuff out of his garage and I happened to stop by there. Needless to say, I cleaned him out. I`ll get a digital camera here soon and post some pics. Later; Rick
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Post by brownnote »

They might be vibrators...
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Post by StratoRat »

I think a lot of the ideas posted in this thread are really good.

Some rules around edicate would make since. For example:

1) Please don't post incomplete information, or information you are not 100% sure of. This is just being considerate of other folks on the site. If you accidently post something that is wrong you could be costing someone else hours, days, even weeks of time, frustration, and money. They might search the site, reference books, etc, and find conflicting information, then end up thinking the site is useless because they get understandably frustrated. Remember this is a World Wide Web site. When you post wrong or incomplete information you are tell the whole world something about yourself...

2) Please don't ask or answer questions in the same thread that are previously answered or asked in the same thread. Please read the entire thread before you post a reply.

3) Please don't post a reply unless you are sure you have an answer or good comment. Posting assumptions or something you are not sure of can really confuse other folks, even people who have experience.

I also think a proven layout of "all" schematic's should be included right under the schematic.
Good idea, especially the "proven" part. I noticed there are some schematics like the old one for the 36 watt in some galleries that appear to be out of date and inaccurate. Removing old files that have inaccuracies in them is a good idea. They only create confusion.

Also I see a lot of duplication when I do searches for different topics. Much of the duplication is where newbies are asking the same questions, some of them very basic. If we could somehow better consolidate and organize information it should reduce duplicate questions.

A few simple docs on "how to" and pointers would be good. For example

1) Don't expect a $30 iron from Radio Shack to do a good job. Get a good 50watt+ iron that properly maintains tip temperature, is adjustable, etc.

2) Clean all leads and solder points before soldering

3) Constantly pull your new solder through a paper towel to clean it before you solder

4) keep the tip of your iron clean using a wet sponge before each solder joint you make

5) Use alegator clips as a heat-sink on leads of caps, resistors, etc while you solder them in place. This will reduce the chances of over heating the components while soldering them in.

etc, etc..

A list of inferior vs. better quality components might be a good idea. For example I've found that Alpha pots are pretty bad. I have one as a MV in my 36 watt that creates all kinds of hum at 0 because the contacts at 0 are messed up. It's a brand-new pot and I need to replace it.

Maybe there should be an area that contains "proven" layouts and matching schematics that a monkey could build from, then other areas could be more discussion and experimental.

Maybe levels of access control could help in some of these areas. For example a newbie can only access the proven materails after downloading docs on basic information. After they have posted pics and wav files of an amp they have working they could then get access to the more expermental topics. I don't know... maybe this is too harsh...

These are just my suggestions.
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