New speaker for classic 18w combo

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bvayling
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New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by bvayling »

Hey all,

With my new amp on its’ way to being dialed, now to the fun stuff. I want a new speaker to pair with my new 18 classic combo. I just read Colossal’s rundown of the various drivers he put in and took out of the 4x12, along with his take on the lower powered Greenbacks.

I’ve had a Scumback M75PVC 65 W in my combo cabinet for several years and that’s all I’ve heard so far with my 18. (Before I finished my combo chassis I used the cab with my AO35 conversion.) I like it a lot and I’ve been a Scumback fan for many years, having bought a half dozen drivers from Jim for my Metro JTM 45. (Sorry Josh.) Being a big Dickey Betts fan I have always loved the clarity of the push the amp into a higher powered speaker approach. BUT now Josh has gotten me to thinking about a lower powered speaker in the little combo cab.

I just watched a George Metropolous demo of a bunch of Celestions and clones. In fact I watched it twice.
Of course the original 1967 G12M20 had it all. I thought the reissue of that one sounded really good. But I actually thought the G12M25 sounded better. (A little fuller and rounder than the reissue 20.) I liked the Scumback M75PVC 20w too, it sounded like the reissue G12M20, no surprise. But something about that modern Celestion G12M25 just sounded good to me.

Here’s the thing though, and that’s that all these speakers were being demo’d in a 4x12.

So good forum folk, what low powered single 12 really rocks with these 18 combos? I push the amp pretty hard sometimes with the volume up high (no pedals except a wah some times) and I’ve been known to dime it. It sounds better to me around 8,9 or 10 on the dial though. I was kind of worried about the lower powered speaker because of that too. Is that a concern for the 20 watt speakers, blowing one up with this amp? I really like the G12M20 and wonder if there is a big difference between the English and Chinese version of it. I think ultimately the Greenback 20 or 25 is what I am leaning towards though.

My benchmark Marshall sound is Bluesbreakers era Clapton, driving the amp until you get just a hint of feedback.

Enough rambling, I look forward to your thoughts.

Thanks.
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Bieworm
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Re: New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by Bieworm »

check the G12H30. They are available in 55Hz or 75Hz... the 55 having a little more bottom end. They are both superior to the G12M. G12M's are fine speakers, but only in a 4x12 cab. Playing a single M is not going to provide enough low end.
OTOH, I had a Bogner Shiva once.. It carried a G12-80Watt classic lead. At the time I had switched an AC30 with a G12M pair. Going from that one to the bogner with the classic lead 80 was an immense difference. More definition and a LOT more low end. Probably the closed back combo, but still. The 1x12 CL80 was way fuller than the 2x12 G12M vox.
I wonder how that one would sport in an 18W... It'll probably be a little less vintage sounding, but...it is really good!!!
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colossal
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Re: New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by colossal »

I really like the 20W 16ohm G12M Heritage Greenback (made in Ipswich). Fantastic speaker with the 18W. It has a wonderful mix of chimey top end and detail with a warm midrange and low end. Just very well balanced (with an 18W and a Les Paul). Of course, Celestion discontinued them last year citing reduced demand :? :x However!, the Eddie Van Halen signature 20W Greenback is actually the same speaker, but with different livery. The 65W Scumback M75-PVC is a very, very close second with a little more headroom, but sonically very similar to the G12M Heritage. IMO, you can't go wrong with either speaker. There is something a G12H30 55Hz Heritage does, on its own, that is just not my cup of tea. I love Hendrix and he used them, but that speaker has a signature my ear immediately picks up on and it is not for me, at least by itself. Speaker choice is so obnoxiously subjective though and it depends on your guitar and pickups, as well as the circuit, and what you're going for tonally.
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Re: New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by zaphod_phil »

Have you tried the 75Hz G12H 30? I have one of those and think it sounds great in my open- back combo cab, as well as in a Marshall 1X12 closed cab. That big magnet is said to be what gives it the solid low-end response.
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Re: New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by JMPGuitars »

bvayling wrote:
Wed 04/15/20 9:42 pm
I’ve had a Scumback M75PVC 65 W in my combo cabinet for several years and that’s all I’ve heard so far with my 18. (Before I finished my combo chassis I used the cab with my AO35 conversion.) I like it a lot and I’ve been a Scumback fan for many years, having bought a half dozen drivers from Jim for my Metro JTM 45. (Sorry Josh.)
LOL! You're allowed to like whatever you want. ;)

I'll never support him though. He was a scumbag to me, and refused to stand behind his product regarding a known defect. He wanted to charge me more for a repair of a manufacturer defect, than a new speaker would have cost.

To me, customer service is as important as the speaker quality, and there are PLENTY of manufacturers that make a better product with better service. Literally everything I tried from Eminence or Tone Tubby or WGS sounded better than the M75 I had.
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bvayling
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Re: New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by bvayling »

Thanks for the feedback everybody. Still debating....
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Re: New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by bvayling »

So on the Celestion site there is a Heritage G12M 20w greenback and the EVH 20 w greenback and finally there is the “Classic” G12m greenback, 25w.

The Classic appears to be 25w. The other two are both 20w, both now apparently made in England.

For you Celestion specialists, what's the difference between those two?

I’m still undecided. I like the Classic 25w greenback. Still thinking about the 20w M75.....
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bvayling
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Re: New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by bvayling »

colossal wrote:
Thu 04/16/20 9:24 am
I really like the 20W 16ohm G12M Heritage Greenback (made in Ipswich). Fantastic speaker with the 18W. It has a wonderful mix of chimey top end and detail with a warm midrange and low end. Just very well balanced (with an 18W and a Les Paul). Of course, Celestion discontinued them last year citing reduced demand :? :x However!, the Eddie Van Halen signature 20W Greenback is actually the same speaker, but with different livery. The 65W Scumback M75-PVC is a very, very close second with a little more headroom, but sonically very similar to the G12M Heritage. IMO, you can't go wrong with either speaker.
Colossal, you don’t mention the M75PVC 20w. This is the 20w equivalent to the greenback. Any comments on it?

I love the M75PVC 65w that’s in the cab now. I’m looking for the same feel but at lower volume in the 18.

Thanks.

Bernard
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colossal
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Re: New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by colossal »

bvayling wrote:
Fri 04/17/20 9:06 pm
Colossal, you don’t mention the M75PVC 20w. This is the 20w equivalent to the greenback. Any comments on it?

I love the M75PVC 65w that’s in the cab now. I’m looking for the same feel but at lower volume in the 18.

Thanks.

Bernard
Hi Bernard,

I haven't tried that speaker only because I had the 20W Heritages. However, now that they are out of production ( :x ) and few left, I am looking for alternatives so I may get one to try. Let me know if you do.
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Re: New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by bvayling »

Yes, I am tempted. I'll let you know.
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bvayling
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Re: New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by bvayling »

I bought the Scumback M75PVC 20w. Just installed it yesterday. It replaced the M75PVC 65w in the same cabinet.

Can't say I notice any difference really. Kind of hard to A/B since it had been a while and it's really basically the same speaker. On the other hand I haven't really opened it up and cranked the volume yet either.

Same trademark smoothness as the 65. I really love these speakers. Maybe someday I'll get adventurous and try a Tone Tubby!

I'll try to post sound when I get the UA software for the interface straightened out.
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Re: New speaker for classic 18w combo

Post by colossal »

bvayling wrote:
Mon 04/27/20 10:25 am
I bought the Scumback M75PVC 20w. Just installed it yesterday. It replaced the M75PVC 65w in the same cabinet.

Can't say I notice any difference really. Kind of hard to A/B since it had been a while and it's really basically the same speaker. On the other hand I haven't really opened it up and cranked the volume yet either.

Same trademark smoothness as the 65. I really love these speakers. Maybe someday I'll get adventurous and try a Tone Tubby!

I'll try to post sound when I get the UA software for the interface straightened out.
Thanks for the update. I found the 65W M75 PVC to be quite close to the 20W Heritage. Little more headroom, of course. I'm glad to hear the 20W PVC might be a viable alternative to the Heritage.
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