mismatch 2x12

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ratebeic
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mismatch 2x12

Post by ratebeic »

Hi All,

I´ve been reading your forum for a while, but never published anything. I´m from Chile and I bought my first 18watt GDS kit. Still haven´t received it and I´m anxiuously waiting for it.
I bought the head version and I want to build a mismatch speakers cabinet. I´ve seen that a good combination may be a celestion alnico blue with a greenback. After this amp is ready, I´ll go for the plexi, so the cabinet should also work.
The bad thing is that in CHile we have a redeuced market, and the speaker I need to get them from overseas, and if I don´t like them, I´ll have to die with them, so it´s good to get the right the first time.
Any suggestion? which speakers should work, or I can´t go wrong with?

Thanks for your hels.

PS: I've search the forum for a subject ike this, but I haven´t been able to find anything that helps...
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krx
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Post by krx »

I would recommend a 1x12 with a Celestion G12H30. That setup is pretty widely liked around here for an 18W.

I would not mix a G12M Greenback and a Blue. The Blue is MUCH louder, so there's little point in using the Greenback with it. You could mix a G12H30 and Blue though.
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Post by CurtissRobin »

There's a lot of information on speaker choices, it's just a little hard to filter it out of the many many posts. Here's a relevant link:
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... highlight=
My 65 Amps London is based on the 18 watt (with a Vox-like channel as well) and the G12H30 and Alnico Blue combination is wonderful!

KennyO
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Post by ratebeic »

Thanks for your answers. You´re right about the topics, there´re so many, that I got lost when I searched for them. A concerned I had about the greenback is that the sensibility is 97db, so at the side of a 100db speaker it will sound at a lower volume.
Is ther any trouble having one spaker rated at 15W and the other at 30W?
What about the other G12H and the V30 combination? Too bad I don´t have any store around to go and try them out.
thanks
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Post by CurtissRobin »

The speakers don't need to be identical in any way as long as the differences are reasonable. The character of one could be overwhelmed by the character of the other where the differences are great. The extra color you get by mixing speakers is a result of reasonable differences between speakers. The 15W and 30W rating combination is just fine in an 18 watt amp. In fact I know that some people play an 18 watt head into a 15W speaker in a 1x12 cab. A couple other posters have used and recommended the G12H and V30 combination.

KennyO
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kleuck
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Post by kleuck »

How about a Cannabis Rex ?
Should mix well with a blue, and is not expensive (i have the 10" Lil Buddy and it's a killer !)
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Chris72
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Post by Chris72 »

I quite like mixing a Greenback with a G75T-12. Both 97db and the 75 fills the top and bottom the that Greenback lacks but retains its sweet mids.
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andrekp
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Re: mismatch 2x12

Post by andrekp »

I have a closed 2x12 with a G12H30 (Actually an Avatar Hellatone H30) and a V30.

That H30 REALLY tames the V30 and makes a rather touchy cab sound quite tame again. (I didn't actually realize how touchy the amp was until I replaced on the the V30's. It was like adding a compressor pedal.) I liked the two V30's, but replacing one with the H30 was the best thing I've done for this amp, so I think highly of this pairing.

The only thing I've noticed is that in a closed back cab it gets a little boomy in the low notes. On stage and with a band (something I haven't tried with it yet) it'd probably be fine, but solo in my living room - it's a little boomy. It was good with V30's, but I think with the mismatched pair, an open back might be better.

As a final thought, an open back also will bleed a little more sound over to the drummer on stage, rather than project it all forward. Depends on a lot of things, obviously, but it's worth considering.
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Re: mismatch 2x12

Post by jaysg »

I never liked the sound with a V30. Pricing, power levels, etc., taken into consideration, the G12H30 is the best starting point with these amps. Blue (or Gold) is a great speaker, but costs significantly more, as does a UK G1265...which is a good speaker to have around for lots of amps.
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Re: mismatch 2x12

Post by charisjapan »

Hey all,

First poster, be gentle. :wink:

Living in Japan, I can buy just about any new speaker that is around, but at a premium, something around 150~200% US prices. Used speakers are hard to come by at local auction sites, and while I can buy through eBay, shipping is ... outrageous. So, like the OP, I want to be careful about making a purchase.

I now have a modern Jensen P12Q (made in Italy, 40W, 96 dB), and wanted to "mismatch" it with a similar spec ferrite speaker. I play blues/early rock, and wondered what a vintage American AlNiCo would sound like with a vintage British speaker, like a Celestion G12M Heritage (made in England, 20W, 96dB) ... any thoughts?

(edit: Oh, yeah, both 8 ohms ... better to use parallel or serial?)

I have made a 5E3 clone, and a few Champs, but am looking into building an 18 watt TMB ... that why I'm here! :D

Thanks in advance.
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Re: mismatch 2x12

Post by CurtissRobin »

If it's going to be for the 18 watt amp I'd set the Jensen aside for another project.

The Jensen P12Q tends to be on the bright side with pronounced midrange and if you couple that to an 18 watt amp and its EL84s, which are inherently bright, you may find the combination to be a bit penetrating. This is especially so if you team it with w G12H30 which also has a pronounced upper midrange. If you want a 2x12, the Celestion G12H-30 with a Celestion Alnico Blue is (IMHO) the gold standard. They're truly complementary speakers and that's the combination used in the 65 Amps London, among others.

OTOH there's little to be lost by trying something different. We do it all the time! After all, if something doesn't work to our liking we try something else and call it tweaking.

As to serial vs. parallel, the debate goes on but I've heard knowledgeable techs say more often that you should use the higher impedence when it's your choice. I've never come across a particularly strong argument either way.

KennyO
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Re: mismatch 2x12

Post by charisjapan »

CurtissRobin wrote:If it's going to be for the 18 watt amp I'd set the Jensen aside for another project.

The Jensen P12Q tends to be on the bright side with pronounced midrange and if you couple that to an 18 watt amp and its EL84s, which are inherently bright, you may find the combination to be a bit penetrating. This is especially so if you team it with w G12H30 which also has a pronounced upper midrange. If you want a 2x12, the Celestion G12H-30 with a Celestion Alnico Blue is (IMHO) the gold standard. They're truly complementary speakers and that's the combination used in the 65 Amps London, among others.

OTOH there's little to be lost by trying something different. We do it all the time! After all, if something doesn't work to our liking we try something else and call it tweaking.

As to serial vs. parallel, the debate goes on but I've heard knowledgeable techs say more often that you should use the higher impedence when it's your choice. I've never come across a particularly strong argument either way.

KennyO
Thanks for the reply, Kenny,

Celestion Blue ... Youch! $350 ... Hmmm ...

I've always been intrigued by the mystique of the Greenback, so maybe I'll just try it solo. What I really want is a fully broken-in vintage one, but those are $300-500 on auction sites here. (Gulp)

I'm presently using a single 1956 Jensen P12R in a 2X12 sized open back cab I built, which sounds great with Fender circuits. I kind of doubt it would compliment an 18 watt ... but who knows?!
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Re: mismatch 2x12

Post by JMPGuitars »

Series vs. Parallel doesn't matter too much except for 2 things:

1. The impedance (most important) 8 Ohms + 8 Ohms in series = 16 Ohms, which is the best rating for 18 Watt amps. 8 Ohms + 8 Ohms in parallel = 4 Ohms, which is ok.

2. Reliability: In parallel, if one speaker fails, the other still works. You just need to be careful to adjust your amps output. In series, if either speaker fails, you will have no sound.
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Re: mismatch 2x12

Post by JMPGuitars »

charisjapan wrote: Celestion Blue ... Youch! $350 ... Hmmm ...

I've always been intrigued by the mystique of the Greenback, so maybe I'll just try it solo. What I really want is a fully broken-in vintage one, but those are $300-500 on auction sites here. (Gulp)

I'm presently using a single 1956 Jensen P12R in a 2X12 sized open back cab I built, which sounds great with Fender circuits. I kind of doubt it would compliment an 18 watt ... but who knows?!
If you want a broken in celestion speaker, look for an Hellatone speaker. I would also consider other brands instead though. Tone Tubby is good, Eminence is good, there's lots of options. I would take a look at some youtube videos for different samples of speakers before you choose.
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Re: mismatch 2x12

Post by charisjapan »

JMPGuitars wrote:If you want a broken in celestion speaker, look for an Hellatone speaker. I would also consider other brands instead though. Tone Tubby is good, Eminence is good, there's lots of options. I would take a look at some youtube videos for different samples of speakers before you choose.
I wish! Hellatone and Tone Tubby are not available here, except to order from the US ... if they will ship overseas at all, the shipping is often $80-100 per speaker.

I can buy some Webers, Celestions, and Eminence speakers, all at a significant markup. And no break in services. Last speaker I bought new was connected to my 5E3 and cranked playing Earth, Wind and Fire for about 10 hours in a closet ... even in the closet Mrs Charisjapan was not happy (even though she likes E, W and F).

... sigh ...
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