Scumback vs. Celestion

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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by JMPGuitars »

Animal wrote:No offense taken I agree 100%. When I started plying it was the guitar I saved for and the guitar I learned inside and out. At one point I finally realized a tube amp was the way to go and a big expensive cabinet was def gonna look good and I'd magically be good at playing because I had awesome gear. Well later in life I learnd what real tone was and unfortunetly moved into my first house and got married. I am learning and finally developing and understanding of the entire signal path. I failed to mention that I've spent the last12 years building and designing electric guitars so there's a reason I'm not so savy with amps and speakers. I am looking for a site to explain what makes sense. There must be some basic wrongs and rights when designing a rig based on venue. My venue is low volume basement tone. I expectthat a big full tone is still achievable. Some say to go with a 12 inch single speaker cabinet but man that does nothing for a full sound and good bass response I am not a solo scaling Joe satriani, I wish I was, so I need not only creamy hi end and articulate miss but thick tight asskicking bass. What's the issue if I load my 4x12 cab with great speakers and run this 18 watt what will I benefit from a single 12 inch. Just curious.
I would pick between the RIGHT 1x12 or a 2x10 or MAYBE a 2x12, but go to the store and play a few. You can get a full sound from a 1x12, but the cabinet has to be big enough if you want a bigger sound, or designed/tuned for the sound you want.

If you think you can't get full sound out of a 1x12, you're playing the wrong speaker/cab/amp combination. I'm playing a Scumback M75 in a Mesa 1x12 closed-back cab, and I keep the bass knob very low on the amps I put through it. The M75 is only 97db sensitivity, so it's a lot quieter than the EVM12L (100db sensitivity) in my 18W combo. I'm going to build a smaller 18W-EF86 combo with a 10" Weber Texas ceramic. I already tried that setup together, and it sounds killer.
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Daviedawg
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by Daviedawg »

I play at home using a 2x10 which has Celestion G10 Vintage 60 watts in a home built cab with some variable rear venting. The ones installed I bought second hand. They are maybe 20 years old but had hardly been used until a year ago. The current spec says 97dB. I expect these are the same so are sort of mid efficiency. Current price is about £60 each.
The bass is strong but well controlled, mids are quite strong and highs are crisp. Paired up you get a good volume but not overly loud. But remember that this is not at gigging levels but at neighbour friendly ones with VVR.
This is a reasonable option which is different from the other cabs you have. It works well with the lower wattage amps I have as well as the 18 watt.

Dd
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

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Thank you both for the reply and Information. It can't hurt to build a cab and throw a speaker or two in it. If anything else, Ill have a variety in speaker cabs which enables more tonal options. I can build the cab no problem in my shop and honestly two speakers aren't going to break the bank. I think this is a better idea than using the Marshall jcm 2000 cab with celestian G12-T75 speakers. But who doesnt like looking at a Marshall half stack. Makes my studio look awesome
At this point its a showdown between the following speaker companies , scumback,weber and celestian. I'd like to try something other than celestian so perhaps scumbacks it is. I presume weber and SB are both excellent speakers. For this build I'm going to take all the advise and buy  low watt , low db output, set of 12s. Ill still need to attenuate to push this amp at tollerable levels I'm sure
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by brewdude »

As for attenuation, I recommend you consider installing a VVR.
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by JMPGuitars »

Animal wrote:Thank you both for the reply and Information. It can't hurt to build a cab and throw a speaker or two in it. If anything else, Ill have a variety in speaker cabs which enables more tonal options. I can build the cab no problem in my shop and honestly two speakers aren't going to break the bank. I think this is a better idea than using the Marshall jcm 2000 cab with celestian G12-T75 speakers. But who doesnt like looking at a Marshall half stack. Makes my studio look awesome
At this point its a showdown between the following speaker companies , scumback,weber and celestian. I'd like to try something other than celestian so perhaps scumbacks it is. I presume weber and SB are both excellent speakers. For this build I'm going to take all the advise and buy  low watt , low db output, set of 12s. Ill still need to attenuate to push this amp at tollerable levels I'm sure
Sounds like a good plan. From what I've read, Scumbacks in general are much more popular than the Weber speakers, but I really like the Texas 10 I mentioned (though maybe not as much as the M75 Scumback), so who knows. Back to the personal taste thing. Make sure you post some photos in the gallery after you build it! :)
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by Animal »

I think I will spend some time and create my user profile. I have yet to purchase the 18 watt GDS amp kit but hopefully I will soon. I will be choosing the 2/C over the single channel. Why not spend the additional $100 and get vibrato and a second channel. As for the speakers, I think lll try the Scumback equivalent to the original greenbacks in a 20 Watt spec and hopefully LESS db output. Then again the blackback BM65-LD was a favorite for the gentleman you mentioned so I may just pick one of those. I guess ill purchase some good birch laminated plywood and go to town. Ill grab some supplies from Mojo and complete the build. Wish I could have a Name Badge made in my own name. Funny thing is, I have several pearl and abalone inlays, custom made by a man overseas which illustrate my last name in all my guitar builds. Now I need to find a larger size name badge for my amp with my last name. Maybe I can carve something and make a mold, then use a plastic injection colored white to make my own badges. Not hard to do. hmmmmm
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by JMPGuitars »

Animal wrote:I think I will spend some time and create my user profile. I have yet to purchase the 18 watt GDS amp kit but hopefully I will soon. I will be choosing the 2/C over the single channel. Why not spend the additional $100 and get vibrato and a second channel. As for the speakers, I think lll try the Scumback equivalent to the original greenbacks in a 20 Watt spec and hopefully LESS db output. Then again the blackback BM65-LD was a favorite for the gentleman you mentioned so I may just pick one of those. I guess ill purchase some good birch laminated plywood and go to town. Ill grab some supplies from Mojo and complete the build. Wish I could have a Name Badge made in my own name. Funny thing is, I have several pearl and abalone inlays, custom made by a man overseas which illustrate my last name in all my guitar builds. Now I need to find a larger size name badge for my amp with my last name. Maybe I can carve something and make a mold, then use a plastic injection colored white to make my own badges. Not hard to do. hmmmmm
BNPLasers.com is awesome for nameplates, control panels, etc... You can design whatever you want and send it to them to make on the different materials they offer. Their customer service is FANTASTIC also.
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by Animal »

Dooooooood. Youre the best. I had NO IDEA this company or process even existed. How super cool is that !
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by JMPGuitars »

Animal wrote:Dooooooood. Youre the best. I had NO IDEA this company or process even existed. How super cool is that !
Ha! They're awesome! It's wicked cool. I'm a graphic/web design as my day job, and they can do almost anything I can think of. So far I've been fairly normalish with the designs (my graffiti logo aside), but I will eventually send them something wacky to see how it comes out. :) Check out my build of my SL2ish amp, those faceplates are from them.
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by katopan »

Plenty of options as has been said. But also a 1x12 with a loud speaker will still keep up with an acoustic hard hitting drummer. And the bottom end response is all about cab design, rather than how many drivers are installed.
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by Animal »

I think I just hate this Marshall cabinet. Sounds like crap as is. Used to love the soldano open back 2x12 maybe ill hook it back up. :)
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by AC Cobra »

Its good to see another guitar builder here. Sounds like you are also in a similar as me as far as family goes. If you want bass you need a sealed cab, and from my experance with subs more volume to the enclosure will give deeper bass. I personally prefer a open back cabs as they give more complex midrange, and more midrange volume. Problem with a open back is it is lacking bottom end for palm muting. Im planing on going with 1 open back and 1 closed 12, probably with diffrent voiced speakers.
I think I may know who you got your inlays from, but i would say dont do shell for the logo on the amp, i think at the size required it wouldnt look that good. And laminated sheets are really expencive. I was thinking about engraving plexi and pointing white led's through it. The other option sounds great as well and would look really pro.
Did you ever concider doing the cab out of hardwood? Thats what im thinking about, although im more worried about tone at this point as im prety sure i can make it look good.
The vvr sounds like a good option, and I plan on using it on my build. I also wonder is switchable negitive feedback would help get the cleans louder when playing with a drummer. Feedback from someone with experence on this would be appreciated.
Enjoy the project and the tone!!
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Re: Scumback vs. Celestion

Post by BackwoodsJoe »

I've been using WGS speakers lately. They sound just as good for a third of the price! :D
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