Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

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Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by Animal »

After a long bout of reading and educating amongst many companies and reviews, I have chosen to equip my 2x12 cabinet, with a Scumback M75 PVC and a Scumnico S75 PVC. My amp, Trinity 18 watt Plexi, VVR (VRM) equipped. My question is what wattage speakers and what ohms speakers should I order. I will be playing this amp at moderate to low wattage. Domestic volumes in the basement are my limit.. :(

My options as many may know, from the scum back website are as followed:

M75-PVC : 20 or 65 watt. 8 or 16 ohm at 97db

Scumnico S75-PVC : 25 or 65 watt. and 8 or 16 ohm at 98db

I don't need a lot of headroom and don't see me getting head room AND nice bluesy light breakup at lower volumes unless the VVR (VRM) is the magic devise. This amp/cab is designed for that vintage bluesy breakup and NOT for that modern pushed high gain tone.

All suggestions and or reasoning, advise, would be appreciated.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by JMPGuitars »

Lower wattage is better if you want the overdrive tone to benefit from the speakers. Higher wattage gives you more headroom.

You want 16 Ohms output impedance, so you can do two 8 Ohm speakers in series in a 2x12 to get that.

One thing I noticed on their site you should be aware of "The 65w speakers are built with higher temperature nomex voice coils and have a 1 year warranty.
The 65w speakers do not spark or catch on fire.
" - Something that is apparently an issue with the lower watt speakers.

Before you bite on the Scumbacks, I would suggest taking a look at Tone Tubby.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by Animal »

I have checked all of them out, as far as possible, without buying them. Ive been searching and reading and listening for months and its time to take the plunge. What can you say about TT and SB that may help me make an experienced decision.

I was speaking with another profound guitar source who advised that not only the proper electronics help tone BUT, hand wound pups are a must for that woody organic open sound tone that I'm after.

Perhaps you can shed some light on this as well. I hope :)

I can be found at sort914 at gmail

Philly Dan.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by bvayling »

I have used Scumback speakers in search of Bluesbreaker sound and they deliver completely. I have a Scumnico 65W, an M75 65W (PVC/nomex), each in a single cab, and a pair of PVC 25 W Scumnicos in a 2x12 for my Metro JTM45. They haven't caught on fire yet and I play it pretty loud sometimes!

I am very happy with all of these speakers. Vintage Celestion new in the box. I would absolutely go with a pair of the PVC 25W for your application, I doubt they will catch on fire in your scenario.

Jim's speakers are expensive but worth every penny, if you are looking for that sound.

No affiliation, etc., just a satisfied customer.

Cheers,

Bernie
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by JMPGuitars »

Animal wrote:I have checked all of them out, as far as possible, without buying them. Ive been searching and reading and listening for months and its time to take the plunge. What can you say about TT and SB that may help me make an experienced decision.

I was speaking with another profound guitar source who advised that not only the proper electronics help tone BUT, hand wound pups are a must for that woody organic open sound tone that I'm after.

Perhaps you can shed some light on this as well. I hope :)

I can be found at sort914 at gmail

Philly Dan.
Scumbacks do sound good. So does Tone Tubby. One thing that sets them apart more than anything for me, is their customer service. Scumback failed HARDCORE in that department, and I'll never do business with them again. Frankly his attitude disgusted me, and I felt like he was trying to scam me when one of his speakers failed.

I've spoken to Tone Tubby a little bit over the past couple weeks and I've been nothing but impressed with their customer service. I already own one of their speakers, and I've heard nothing but good things about the company. I'm ordering a few more Tone Tubby speakers to try with some of my 18 watters, and I already know it's going to be great.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by Animal »

Thats a shame you had a bad experience with their customer service. I understand completely. Id love to know which speaker, speakers you are going to purchase for you 18 watt. What 18 watt amp do you have and how is it equipped. I still have to purchase tubes for mine.

I must say I had a pretty awesome conversation with Jim via email a few days ago, but am totally unfamiliar with their products first hand. Neither am I familiar with TTs products. I think it would be a safe bet that I should at some point, deplete the bank and buy all the speakers in the world. I still won't be happy lol

On a side note, do you think 2 20/25 watt speakers wired together in a 2x12 cab would be fine with my 18 watt amp? next step up is 65 watts, and I may not get that killer tube break up at my required low levels, despite the VVR.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by JMPGuitars »

The 18 Watts I built that I'll be testing with are variations of the EF86 Superlite, Superlite TMB, and the classic single channel.

I'm going to be testing out the new series from Tone Tubby called the "Chicago Blue" which is 30 Watts. I also want to try their Alnico Red, which is similar but higher wattage. Something else I like about Tone Tubby is the hemp cones. I read a mediocre book about amplifier building a while ago, and the only thing I liked about the book at all was the Tone Tubby and Dr. Z interviews at the end.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by Animal »

TT Alnico red is just too many watts I think. Only one way to find out though. But the combination of two (20/25) speakers , should bring me that early break up I'm looking for from the amp vs. 40/50 from a red and green.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by JMPGuitars »

That's why I'm going for the Chicago Blue, it's 30 watts. TT also has a Low Watt series that I'm going to try out. Early break up in either of those cases is going to be amp circuit dependent more than the speakers anyway, especially if you're doing a 2x12.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by Animal »

Although I am learning, I am still missing something here, I'm sure. I am so glad to be part of this forum and love reading and posting, but I must ask, this "gain", or "break up", that most common players seek, or "dye for", is that tube saturation? and if so, what do the speakers have to do with it.

I have always thought an amp was an amp and it was all about the guitar, then I learned about tubes. Then I thought tone was all about the guitar and the amp, then I realized there were certain speakers. Now I am learning that the amp and speakers effect each other in some way but I can't seem to grasp it completely.

And if that "gain" and or "break-up" is the effects of driving the power tubes, then what is speaker breakup? and is it a good or bad thing.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by JMPGuitars »

Everything affects tone, but to keep it fairly simple, focus on three main things to understand overdrive tone. Tubes + Circuit / Output Transformer + Speaker(s).

Tubes have different characteristics for both gain and tone. As long as they're good quality tubes, it's not a question of anything about good vs. bad, it's just a matter of taste. You can only figure that out by reading the specs people describe, and then try them out for yourself and form your own opinion.

Circuit / OT - we're talking 18 Watt here only, so they're typically geared towards output tube saturation with lower headroom. Some variations give you more play with preamp tubes like the Superlite TMB. In general, the magic of the 18 Watt is based on the output tubes.

Speakers - in regards to distortion only, the amplifier needs to push enough air/wattage to force the speaker to break up. That means it needs to be pushed close to its limits. Is it a good or a bad thing? That's a matter of personal taste. Think of it as a small percentage of the overdrive tone. If you take a 20 watt speaker + a 20 watt speaker, you have 40 watts. That's a lot more than 18, so that is not likely to affect the distortion so much. For speaker responsiveness, and actually pushing air, I'd guess that hemp cones would be a lot more responsive and musical than PVC. I'd love to hear a comparison.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by Animal »

Finally got my 18 watt up and running. I like it a lot. Its my first take on a tube rectifier, period. Love that growling sizzle while the underlying note(s) are clear and pronounced. As with my previous questions and concerns, my playing volumes are drastically marginal. I can only get the master volume up around 2 at max. The power tubes will most likely never ever be pushed here at the house, but the thing still sounds good. I have not built or purchased the proper cabinet for this amp so, I am limited to my monster marshall 4x12 from back in the day. Yup, total over kill and most likely hurting the true tone of my 18 watt amp.

Was wondering if you could reiterate the basics for me on building the perfect cabinet. I am considering Scumbags TT. Leaning towards a 2x12 just for a fuller sound and more bass, but of course I would like to read your opinion here.

For the 18 watt, I tubed like the designer requested as listed below:
Rectifier JJ EZ81
Power Tubes Tong Sol EL84
V1 Mullard 12AX7
V2 V3 JJ 12AX7
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by JMPGuitars »

You want your total ohms to be 16. I use two 8 ohm speakers in series for 16 ohms. Personally, I would look at Tone Tubby, Eminence, or WGS before thinking about Scumback. I had a really bad experience with one of his speakers (scumback), and his customer service was even worse.

Nice choice of tubes, I bet the combination sounds great! Be sure to post some photos in the gallery.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by Animal »

can you point me in the right direction of a cabinet builder. Mojo and Weber are two results that pop up in a general google search. Also want a cab for the head as well.

Still not sure what speakers to go with. :( I always assume quality comes with a heavy price. WGS are very affordable but are they of the same caliber as the TT and Scumback.

Wondering if these 18 watt amps really sound best with a green back, ceramic, style speaker vs, alnico.
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Re: Scumback 2x12. What wattage and Ohm??

Post by JMPGuitars »

I mostly use Mojo for my cabinets, and they've been excellent so far. There are definitely mixed reviews regarding weber's build quality. I have no experience with them to comment otherwise.

I've only heard good things from people that have used the WGS speakers, I personally haven't tried them yet. I love Eminence and Tone Tubby the most so far. I think my favorite is probably the Eminence Red Fang, but I recently got a Private Jack (their GB model) to try out also. There's a few I want to try from Tone Tubby, but I need to buy more cabinets first. I also want to try the WGS Green Beret, it gets great reviews as well.
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