So Why are NOS Tubes Superior and Why.......

[PeterS]

This is like a lot of industrial problems - someone will find a way around it eventually. Just like 20 years ago it was almost impossible to make a colored LCD screen

That problem could go unsolved... unlike making a coloured LCd screen, there isn't enough profit in it to motivate an expensive research effort.

[weatherlight]

Well MIL spec metarials are always high quality (whether it be tubes or integrated circuits) and there were lots of tubes with MIL spec back then. However I just bought some new JJ tubes. After reading some tube discussions, people say that;

yes, nos tubes are good and superior in quality if they are also MIL spec, but they need to be in good condition and after 40-50 years it is hard to find one.

also in recent years (4-5), today's tube manufacturers found a way to make tubes which are close in qaulity and performance to NOS tubes (at least thats what ppl say)which makes the difference for an average-novice consumer like me probably unnoticable.

That being said, due to the high prices and the old age of nos tubes combined with some nice quality new tubes, ppl mostly say that it is not a bad idea to buy new tubes.

Also I dont think the fact, some harmful materials are not being used anymore, will affect quality or sound much, since technology is way ahead then 50s or 60s. I'm sure tube makers found some new ways to produce better quality tubes (better than what they used to make, not MIL spec NOS) for less costs.

Add that the personal tatse where some people may like the harsher sound of some new tubes where otehrs prefer the soft tone of older ones. From what I heard some JJ tubes can even withstand higher voltages then most nos tubes, so the choice narrows down to taste more then durability I think.

[Phil_S]

Some interesting, but long winded commentary here. My unscientific explanation boils down to two factors:
1) Supply is controlled by demand, which simply isn't what it was, and probably never will be again. This is a powerful economic force in manufacturing. This has moved production to "less advanced" (read: cheap labor, real estate, everything else) countries, with a concomitant decline in manufacturing quality control.
2) Toxic metals and chemicals were used (probably still are) and in today's environment, in the USA and maybe elsewhere, it is nearly impossible to meet health and environmental standards.

[demonufo]

also in recent years (4-5), today's tube manufacturers found a way to make tubes which are close in qaulity and performance to NOS tubes (at least thats what ppl say)which makes the difference for an average-novice consumer like me probably unnoticable.

That being said, due to the high prices and the old age of nos tubes combined with some nice quality new tubes, ppl mostly say that it is not a bad idea to buy new tubes.

Also I dont think the fact, some harmful materials are not being used anymore, will affect quality or sound much, since technology is way ahead then 50s or 60s. I'm sure tube makers found some new ways to produce better quality tubes (better than what they used to make, not MIL spec NOS) for less costs.

Hmm, have you actually tried comparing any decent NOS tubes! Certainly doesn't sound like it.

From what I heard some JJ tubes can even withstand higher voltages then most nos tubes, so the choice narrows down to taste more then durability I think.

The reason some JJ tubes can withstand higher voltages is down to different design, for instance their 6V6 can withstand higher plate voltages but is not true to the original design of a 6V6.
And I've never had any new stock valves that have lasted even 1/10th of the time that any of my Mullard's or Telefunken have lasted in service.
In fact I've only ever had one Mullard fail so far, whereas I've got through plenty JJ's, Tung Sol's, EH's.
At the prices I can get due to the favourable (for us) exchange rate, I wouldn't hesitate contacting the Sarge every time for tasty NOS at damned sensible prices (well, on these shores anyways!)
Provided you're not paying out silly money, I think the advantages that SOME (not all) NOS tubes give is definitely worth paying a premium

[dotfret]

I don't think some people appreciate what others are seeking - the majority of people are looking for those sounds that were coming out of guitars and amps from about 65 to 75. Modern equipment does not "cut the mustard" when you seek those sounds, but using old valves goes a long way to sorting out that situation.

Some elements just work better than others, because they have a unique electron configuration, and there are no easy substitutes - but people are working on it.

Weatherlight, you can keep your faith in the technology being "there" already. I know it is not "there" . However, I also know of hifi examples where people are using the new valves in new designs to get the same effect as the old valves gave in the old designs.

I have old guitars and new guitars - I find it reasonably simple to adjust the controls on the new guitars, so they sound like the old ones when plugged into a modern amp.

I have yet to find a modern amp that does not sound better when fitted with old valves, and that is because those amps are designed around the characteristics of those old valves.

The manufacturers have yet to come up with a complete set of new designs that will allow a new amp to sound like an old one. The best new design so far is the ECC99, which is proving useful in a lot of hifi applications, but if we want that "old" sound with the new materials, it looks like a new set of valve designs is needed, probably working at higher voltages than we are used to - so different transformer designs will be needed, too.

[Merlinb]

I don't think some people appreciate what others are seeking - the majority of people are looking for those sounds that were coming out of guitars and amps from about 65 to 75.

The problem with that is, does anyone really know what they sounded like? What are we "supposed" to be aiming for?

1: Old recordings were produced themselves on valve state, or early SS rell-to-reel equipment, adding their own colouration to the recording, not to mention the ovious EQ and compression added in the studio.

2: Even if you lived through that era and played those amps no one's memory can accurately recall sounds- even after a few minutes!

3: A good point made by Dan Torres (about the only good point made by him...) if that if you get one of those vintage amps and play it now, all the component values will have drifted- so you're still not hearing the way it sounded when it came out of the factory!

[tubetek]

"Let us be clear about explosions..."
Actually, the explosions I was referring to have nothing to do with the getter; As I recall, the plate material used in the big GE Beam-Power Pentodes (6L6GC, 6550a etc.) was created using some type of controlled explosion to bond materials at near the molecular level. You are 100% on how gettering works, though. Perhaps someone has more info about the plate-metal manufacturing; I can't remember where I read that...
Tom