effects loop vs noise
Moderators: zaphod_phil, Daviedawg, Graydon, CurtissRobin, colossal
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2305
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
effects loop vs noise
When I put my effects in front of my 18 watters I get a serious amount of hiss and noises.
I checked every pedal, and it comes down to the delay and reverb pedals making the noise.
It's not the daisy chaining. It has a voodoo lab power supply. Tried delay and reverb alone with battery power. It's a RE20 from boss. So that one is always in the chain, no true bypass. The noise is even worse when the pedal is NOT on. Oscillation and a subtile high pitch sound...
Before adding the effects loop on my amps.. do you reckon if it will help? Or is that noise going to be amplified near the amount that I have with them in front of the amp? Is the PI going to boost that noise a lot?
Or should I look for a solution by using a TB looper for those 2 pedals?
I just have no idea if an effects loop will help.
For the record: the amps are pretty quiet without effects in the front. + the same effects in front of my Vibro King ain't nearly as noisy as the 18 watters...
And it is not from bad or low quality cables (all planet waves)
thx for the feedback
BW
I checked every pedal, and it comes down to the delay and reverb pedals making the noise.
It's not the daisy chaining. It has a voodoo lab power supply. Tried delay and reverb alone with battery power. It's a RE20 from boss. So that one is always in the chain, no true bypass. The noise is even worse when the pedal is NOT on. Oscillation and a subtile high pitch sound...
Before adding the effects loop on my amps.. do you reckon if it will help? Or is that noise going to be amplified near the amount that I have with them in front of the amp? Is the PI going to boost that noise a lot?
Or should I look for a solution by using a TB looper for those 2 pedals?
I just have no idea if an effects loop will help.
For the record: the amps are pretty quiet without effects in the front. + the same effects in front of my Vibro King ain't nearly as noisy as the 18 watters...
And it is not from bad or low quality cables (all planet waves)
thx for the feedback
BW
0 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- JMPGuitars
- Super Duper Admin
- Posts: 3967
- Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
- Location: South Central, MA
- Contact:
Re: effects loop vs noise
An amplifier gain stage amplifies anything you throw at it.
If you throw noise through it from a noisy pedal, it will also be amplified.
Now look at the schematic and see what the difference is between running from the front of the amp or the effects loop.
If you throw noise through it from a noisy pedal, it will also be amplified.
Now look at the schematic and see what the difference is between running from the front of the amp or the effects loop.
1 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2305
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: effects loop vs noise
It looks like its past the gain stages in the preamp and will be amplified by the power tubes. The powertubes amplify too I guess? But to what extent compared to the gain stages?.JMPGuitars wrote: ↑Thu 04/30/20 6:49 amAn amplifier gain stage amplifies anything you throw at it.
If you throw noise through it from a noisy pedal, it will also be amplified.
Now look at the schematic and see what the difference is between running from the front of the amp or the effects loop.
I also ordered a boss PSU230S so I can supply power to the RE20 exclusively. I don't think there is anything wrong wit the pedal because I replaced my Wampler faux tape echo for the RE20 because the Wampler was too noisy. Turned out to be the daisy chaining I had at the time.. So tried the wampler now too and it's even more noisy.
0 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- JMPGuitars
- Super Duper Admin
- Posts: 3967
- Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
- Location: South Central, MA
- Contact:
Re: effects loop vs noise
Every stage including the power tubes amplify, it is an amplifier after all.
Think of it this way. If you have 4 scoops of ice cream (2 preamp tubes, 1 PI, and 1 power amp stage), and you put them all in one bowl, that's a big bowl of ice cream. If you only have 2 scoops of ice cream (PI, and power amp stage), you're then shoving much less ice cream in your face.
If your pedal is noisy, don't give it too much ice cream.
2 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2305
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: effects loop vs noise
Nice metaphor..JMPGuitars wrote: ↑Thu 04/30/20 7:26 amEvery stage including the power tubes amplify, it is an amplifier after all.
Think of it this way. If you have 4 scoops of ice cream (2 preamp tubes, 1 PI, and 1 power amp stage), and you put them all in one bowl, that's a big bowl of ice cream. If you only have 2 scoops of ice cream (PI, and power amp stage), you're then shoving much less ice cream in your face.
If your pedal is noisy, don't give it too much ice cream.
But doubtfully the scoops will be equally in size, and that's what I try to find out... the 4 stages won't take 25% each for their account. I would be glad when the first 2 scoops would take 80% of the noise level, leaving the last 20% for the PI and PT's.. but again, I have no idea...
Will have to experiment on the classic I guess.. the TMB trem stays as is, until I am sure it's worth the soldering heat
0 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"
- JMPGuitars
- Super Duper Admin
- Posts: 3967
- Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
- Location: South Central, MA
- Contact:
Re: effects loop vs noise
Less is less.Bieworm wrote: ↑Thu 04/30/20 7:40 amNice metaphor..
But doubtfully the scoops will be equally in size, and that's what I try to find out... the 4 stages won't take 25% each for their account. I would be glad when the first 2 scoops would take 80% of the noise level, leaving the last 20% for the PI and PT's.. but again, I have no idea...
Will have to experiment on the classic I guess.. the TMB trem stays as is, until I am sure it's worth the soldering heat
The Tremolo TMB is a better candidate since it's single channel.
In the classic I think you might need to use the tremolo side also, but I'm not sure.
0 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info
Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale
-
- Verbose poster
- Posts: 1118
- Joined: Mon 01/04/16 3:52 pm
Re: effects loop vs noise
still at experimental stage with my 6V6 project and i've got the effects loop from the downloads patched in with both normal and TMB channels using the same half of the phase inverter so i can add effect to both channels.
1 x
- Bieworm
- Verbose Moderator
- Posts: 2305
- Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: effects loop vs noise
That's sneaky! NOW you told us ?geoff 1965 wrote: ↑Thu 04/30/20 10:12 amstill at experimental stage with my 6V6 project and i've got the effects loop from the downloads patched in with both normal and TMB channels using the same half of the phase inverter so i can add effect to both channels.
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"