TMB tremolo part deux

18watt-specific Tech Talk - Building, Fixing, Parts, Mods...

Moderators: CurtissRobin, colossal, zaphod_phil, Daviedawg, Graydon

User avatar
Bieworm
Verbose Moderator
Verbose Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by Bieworm »

JMPGuitars wrote:
Tue 04/21/20 6:23 pm
Very nice...but where's the logo? ;)
Nice remark!!.. The glue was curing overnight
;)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"

User avatar
Bieworm
Verbose Moderator
Verbose Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by Bieworm »

New voltage chart..after the PR mod. 15V zeners + UF diodes
The fizz is 99% gone. Did recording before and after. Full blast ...

Before PR mod:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sh56wppb87ti6 ... 3.m4a?dl=0

After PR mod:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sh56wppb87ti6 ... 3.m4a?dl=0
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"

User avatar
JMPGuitars
Super Duper Admin
Super Duper Admin
Posts: 3955
Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
Location: South Central, MA
Contact:

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by JMPGuitars »

Bieworm wrote:
Wed 04/22/20 1:47 pm
New voltage chart..after the PR mod. 15V zeners + UF diodes
The fizz is 99% gone. Did recording before and after. Full blast ...

Before PR mod:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sh56wppb87ti6 ... 3.m4a?dl=0

After PR mod:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sh56wppb87ti6 ... 3.m4a?dl=0
Ha, both sound great. I admit I didn't listen all the way through on either, but I didn't find it that noticeable before, and not at all after. Did you still hear it somewhere?
0 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright

Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info


Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale

User avatar
Bieworm
Verbose Moderator
Verbose Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by Bieworm »

JMPGuitars wrote:
Wed 04/22/20 5:16 pm
Bieworm wrote:
Wed 04/22/20 1:47 pm
New voltage chart..after the PR mod. 15V zeners + UF diodes
The fizz is 99% gone. Did recording before and after. Full blast ...

Before PR mod:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sh56wppb87ti6 ... 3.m4a?dl=0

After PR mod:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sh56wppb87ti6 ... 3.m4a?dl=0
Ha, both sound great. I admit I didn't listen all the way through on either, but I didn't find it that noticeable before, and not at all after. Did you still hear it somewhere?
That's the odd thing with recordings. They never really reflect what hou hear when your playing.
Bottom line: it cured the disease most certainly!

I tested both amps on max vol. The TMB trem is significantly louder than the classic 18. Probably the higher speaker efficiency and the SS rectifier from the TMB...
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"

User avatar
zaphod_phil
Builder, Admin
Builder, Admin
Posts: 15208
Joined: Wed 03/19/03 2:00 am
Location: YYZ

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by zaphod_phil »

Bieworm wrote:
Tue 04/21/20 3:15 pm
The brothers...
The Blues Brothers? :lol:
1 x
Nature abhors a clean tube amp

User avatar
Bieworm
Verbose Moderator
Verbose Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by Bieworm »

zaphod_phil wrote:
Fri 04/24/20 4:37 pm
Bieworm wrote:
Tue 04/21/20 3:15 pm
The brothers...
The Blues Brothers? :lol:
Moet like Angus and Malcolm ;)
0 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"

User avatar
zaphod_phil
Builder, Admin
Builder, Admin
Posts: 15208
Joined: Wed 03/19/03 2:00 am
Location: YYZ

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by zaphod_phil »

Bieworm wrote:
Sun 04/19/20 3:59 pm
It's there, but way less. I cranked it earlier. PR is still required I think...
Will do tomorrow..the clip

BTW... The 100k resistors at the PI...why do you mark them otherways? Are they a specific type of resistor and why?
Those appear to be carbon composition resistors, which are only recommended for use as PI load resistors. In that position, they help produce asymmetry, so you get more even harmonics generated, and the noise they produce isn't significant relative to the large signal levels at the PI output.
2 x
Nature abhors a clean tube amp

User avatar
Bieworm
Verbose Moderator
Verbose Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by Bieworm »

Josh... I owe you clips from the tremolo TMB too now...

FX loop is operational and very good!!!

But going to do that tomorrow
15889631473895780315781131385483.jpg
15889632572408607099277039594595.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"

geoff 1965
Verbose poster
Verbose poster
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mon 01/04/16 3:52 pm

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by geoff 1965 »

just been testing that effect loop today and it handles all the modulating effects very well, i have a series passive loop in my lite2 and effects like reverb & delay are okay but some others cause problems.
2 x

User avatar
Bieworm
Verbose Moderator
Verbose Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by Bieworm »

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vwcaxvfws1fsu ... p.m4a?dl=0
This is one badass amp!!!

The gain is on very light until minute 1.45..
4x the same riff ..
2x no reverb, 1 soft picked and 1 hard picked.
2x with verb, 1soft picked and 1 hard.. notice the touch sensitivity!!!
From minute 1.45 I turn up the gain half way..
This is an awesome amp!!!
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"

User avatar
JMPGuitars
Super Duper Admin
Super Duper Admin
Posts: 3955
Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
Location: South Central, MA
Contact:

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by JMPGuitars »

Bieworm wrote:
Sat 05/09/20 4:19 am
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vwcaxvfws1fsu ... p.m4a?dl=0
This is one badass amp!!!
Agreed! That amp sounds awesome. Nice work. congrats
1 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright

Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info


Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale

User avatar
Bieworm
Verbose Moderator
Verbose Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by Bieworm »

Josh, I was testing stuff with a 5W 24V zener between the rectifier and the first filter cap.
B+ dropped as expected. But the voltages on the PI did too..as expected...
What is your opinion on that?
Took it a little further by parallelling another 8.2k from B+ point B to C, ending up with 4.1k. That helped some, but the powertubes went lower in plate and grid voltages.
Just testing here...
Is there any way I can get the PI back up to spec without the 4.1k tweak?
15893987407627570166066837099362.jpg
15893987691391083130513156225186.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
0 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"

User avatar
JMPGuitars
Super Duper Admin
Super Duper Admin
Posts: 3955
Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
Location: South Central, MA
Contact:

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by JMPGuitars »

I like the red voltages. Go back to that, and see how it sounds.
0 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright

Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info


Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale

User avatar
Bieworm
Verbose Moderator
Verbose Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by Bieworm »

Josh, I was wondering... the cathode caps and resistors of V2.. are they responsible for the huge boost in overdrive? I have yet to find a TMB that drives so hard as this one.. that is the only part that I can't find in other TMB designs.. on the trinity SIII those caps aren't there.. only a 2.7k and a 56k to ground. Where did you get your inspiration for that? Just trying to understand it...
0 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"

User avatar
JMPGuitars
Super Duper Admin
Super Duper Admin
Posts: 3955
Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
Location: South Central, MA
Contact:

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by JMPGuitars »

Bieworm wrote:
Sun 05/17/20 4:43 am
Josh, I was wondering... the cathode caps and resistors of V2.. are they responsible for the huge boost in overdrive? I have yet to find a TMB that drives so hard as this one.. that is the only part that I can't find in other TMB designs.. on the trinity SIII those caps aren't there.. only a 2.7k and a 56k to ground. Where did you get your inspiration for that? Just trying to understand it...
Ha, you need to look at the bigger picture. That V2 isn't in the circuits you're referring to. That tube is increasing the gain, and driving the tone stack.

The amps you're comparing to are 2 channel amps with the same amount of preamp tubes, but the first 2 preamp tubes are only used 1 per channel in them.

I was also going to experiment with a 12AT7/ECC81 in the V2 position if I think the gain is too much when I build mine. You can try that if you want.

Thanks,
Josh
0 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright

Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info


Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale

User avatar
Bieworm
Verbose Moderator
Verbose Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by Bieworm »

JMPGuitars wrote:
Sun 05/17/20 6:37 am
Bieworm wrote:
Sun 05/17/20 4:43 am
Josh, I was wondering... the cathode caps and resistors of V2.. are they responsible for the huge boost in overdrive? I have yet to find a TMB that drives so hard as this one.. that is the only part that I can't find in other TMB designs.. on the trinity SIII those caps aren't there.. only a 2.7k and a 56k to ground. Where did you get your inspiration for that? Just trying to understand it...
Ha, you need to look at the bigger picture. That V2 isn't in the circuits you're referring to. That tube is increasing the gain, and driving the tone stack.

The amps you're comparing to are 2 channel amps with the same amount of preamp tubes, but the first 2 preamp tubes are only used 1 per channel in them.

I was also going to experiment with a 12AT7/ECC81 in the V2 position if I think the gain is too much when I build mine. You can try that if you want.

Thanks,
Josh
FWIW I already tried an old US JAN 5751 and it's still a lot of gain. But hey.. I like the amp more and more. I even get some Slayer tones out of it... no wonder , Slayer plays JCM800's

The OD is hands down one of the best I ever had. I just can't imagine there is NO clean in this amp that is useable.. is there by chance a hypothetical way to skip 1 preamp stage, switchable? That would mean I have no need for a boost pedal anymore
0 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"

User avatar
JMPGuitars
Super Duper Admin
Super Duper Admin
Posts: 3955
Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
Location: South Central, MA
Contact:

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by JMPGuitars »

Bieworm wrote:
Sun 05/17/20 7:13 am
FWIW I already tried an old US JAN 5751 and it's still a lot of gain. But hey.. I like the amp more and more. I even get some Slayer tones out of it... no wonder , Slayer plays JCM800's

The OD is hands down one of the best I ever had. I just can't imagine there is NO clean in this amp that is useable.. is there by chance a hypothetical way to skip 1 preamp stage, switchable? That would mean I have no need for a boost pedal anymore
Have you tried.....lowering the volume on your guitar?
0 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright

Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info


Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale

User avatar
Bieworm
Verbose Moderator
Verbose Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by Bieworm »

JMPGuitars wrote:
Sun 05/17/20 8:21 am
Bieworm wrote:
Sun 05/17/20 7:13 am
FWIW I already tried an old US JAN 5751 and it's still a lot of gain. But hey.. I like the amp more and more. I even get some Slayer tones out of it... no wonder , Slayer plays JCM800's

The OD is hands down one of the best I ever had. I just can't imagine there is NO clean in this amp that is useable.. is there by chance a hypothetical way to skip 1 preamp stage, switchable? That would mean I have no need for a boost pedal anymore
Have you tried.....lowering the volume on your guitar?
Certainly, but it kills treble. And treble bleed mods are not the ideal solution neither
0 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"

User avatar
JMPGuitars
Super Duper Admin
Super Duper Admin
Posts: 3955
Joined: Tue 09/18/12 8:00 pm
Location: South Central, MA
Contact:

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by JMPGuitars »

Bieworm wrote:
Sun 05/17/20 9:52 am
Certainly, but it kills treble. And treble bleed mods are not the ideal solution neither
I use a treble bleed volume pot in all the guitars I build or upgrade these days. They work great. I use a 150K resistor and a .001uF cap in parallel across the volume pot lugs 1 and 2 (lug 3 is ground). It's super simple for you to add this to your guitars.

Having a more functional volume pot will give you more interactive control with all your touch-sensitive amps. It's absolutely worth it. It doesn't matter if you have to do it to 10 guitars, you enjoy tinkering. ;)

I'll have more opinions on the amp circuit in probably a month or so after I build mine. I could build it now, but I'd rather wait to build it in a better chassis when my chassis guy is ready to make more.
0 x
'I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious.' - Steven Wright

Modern Ground Schemes
Soldering Technique
B+ Voltage Reduction
Amplifier Tools & Parts Info


Web Design: DolceVittoria.com
Guitars / Amps / Effects: JMPGuitars.com
(anti)Social: Facebook · Instagram
Items for Sale

User avatar
Bieworm
Verbose Moderator
Verbose Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon 02/10/20 8:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TMB tremolo part deux

Post by Bieworm »

JMPGuitars wrote:
Sun 05/17/20 9:58 am
Bieworm wrote:
Sun 05/17/20 9:52 am
Certainly, but it kills treble. And treble bleed mods are not the ideal solution neither
I use a treble bleed volume pot in all the guitars I build or upgrade these days. They work great. I use a 150K resistor and a .001uF cap in parallel across the volume pot lugs 1 and 2 (lug 3 is ground). It's super simple for you to add this to your guitars.

Having a more functional volume pot will give you more interactive control with all your touch-sensitive amps. It's absolutely worth it. It doesn't matter if you have to do it to 10 guitars, you enjoy tinkering. ;)

I'll have more opinions on the amp circuit in probably a month or so after I build mine. I could build it now, but I'd rather wait to build it in a better chassis when my chassis guy is ready to make more.
It will sell good for sure! There are a lot of people waiting for that amp. Some might not even know it yet.
Ok I will try the TB mod. Same values with 1M pots?
1 x
"THIS should be played at high volume..preferably in a residential area"

Post Reply