the seargent view on puny pentode !

[sgtoverdrive]

i thank each and every one of you for reading my jibberish and old combat vet aint got time to confer with emily post or marie callender and god help that convict martha stewart if i ever get her in my barracks! now hear this i am going to tell the tale,the unvarnished tail of a noncoms experience after selling 2000 of these time bombs! when i fell into tubes i figured id sell a few 84s along with the rest of the huge amount of stock i had access to which few do.unless you can put up with alot of lyin cheatin cutthroat corkscrewin,hawnswagglin dad blasted gal darn liars ever to walk on the battlefield.let the truth be known if any one of you dont admit that the best your amp sounds is when it is throttled and had the snot beat out of it youve deguised your line 6 as a gds! we know the midget pentode sounds best balz out redline.they do not sound good with masters vox seems to be the only company in history that made a four banger and look what they do to a nice set of 84s ....murder them in short order in most cases.alot of return customers puzzle the stripes off me.im glad i aint being blamed for the short merry life that outputs in a vox are doomed to .its a love hate relationship with this tube for me.the best ones are 30- plus years old and they were never intended to run at celing .id hate to think what it might cost to keep two ac 30s fed proper during race season or even woodshed season.so my advice as a fellow 18 watter is ..1 find somethin better then jjs 2 dont use them all the time! 3 if you insist on using an amp that averages 40- more volts then the design put out.prepare to carry spares i feed three of these things i know .but you can bet when im sittin around goofin off or target practice as i call it.i aint usin phillips miniwatts to do it with.i pull my friends boris and ivan out for that trick.then when ya slip the crown jewels on you like em that much better.and you get an added bonus of half ass longevity out of a set. 7 letters should be noted here >>>>RCA GE SLY;euros are more preffered by most but they seldom last as long as any of these menitoned .the best sounding tubes should be used where it counts,recordings gigs ..not in front of the family dog and cousin junior and uncle elmer over in buggtussly or tuna fish wyoming! which brings me to this .the last vestage of the puny mighty power tube....the unsung hero 6v6 ..ya have to drop em to completely kill em.hell if you look at a 84 the wrong way the one that was kickin but the night before is layin on its butt the day after.no matter how new or old.ive seen this after partin with 2000 of em.my discovery had to due with running it at 300 volts .maybe im wrong but here it is ...they sound better when they are way higher then that.300 volts bores me crapless on these amps! 340 makes me feel like im usin billy bartys custom plexi ! my next amp will be like an 18 watt but i assure you it will be powered with the pre world war two car radio tube! here is the advantage> ancient proven desing in 100 different circutis .made in vast vast numbers before your daddy was an itch in his daddys pants! and most are still opertating.? and there price is low and easy to come by great sounding ones for fractional costs compared to the worlds most popular tube the i need another set 6bq5s.now i know some of you green boots think well what the hells this old bag o crap hollerin about well i can tell you first of all you got jelly donuts in your footlockers .your mom and dad dint hug you enough when you were in short pants and just cause your jjs dont do everybody a favor and blow up dont mean that they sound like all that and a bag of chips! i think old fred tacone divided by 13s owner builder had it when he said the 6v6 is the tube for modern music.because you guys cant serioulsy with a staight face tell the old gunney that your dimin your super leads to cheering crowds! the little guys have taken over .if the sgt knew where the local el 84 supplie depot was .id go up there with a squad and kill the lot of em and supplie this board with em.but it aint to be.and from the chair im sittin in the venerable el 84 is going slowly but surley extinct..and when it does im a need some advice from you numbers butts here how to convert mine to usin a sensable tube ya only need a couple sets of........im out there fellers trying to hunt down the last of the big game midgets.but the sgt feels like the lord of tubes has thrown a mojo on the 84 and made it harder to find then a good woman and some money! over and out i havent had a good double barrel hissy like this in some time. your combat advisor and general pain in the butt!@ thats me SGT OD!

[sgtoverdrive]

AND FOR GODS SAKE GET THEM JJS OUT OF YOUR FOOTLOCKERS AND PUT EM UNDER THE BUNKHOUSE WITH THE REST OF THE BUGS! YOU WITH THE DROOPY FACE, WHATS THE PROB SAD SACK > ? LIKE JJS? KP DUTY AND ISSUE HIM A SET OF EI MAGNAVOLS FOR DINNER THE REDPLATE SPECIALS!@

[dartanion]

Hey Sarge,

I'm with you on the 6V6s! Awesome sounding tube when dimed (dozened om my 5E3 ) and can handle being hammered more than a bent nail. I have been able to find some really sweet NOS/pulled 6V6s that aren't too costly to requisition, and they all sound great. My RCAs have been kickin' for a long time before they found their way into my amp. Bonus is that they give off a super sweet blue light show while playing !!

[rjgtr]

6V6s are great tubes. The right pair can be magical.

[zaphod_phil]

Could someone explain to me what the Sarge was saying in that first post....? It sure looked interesting, but I'm darned if I could figure out what the hell he was saying. Maybe he's been suffering from combat stress....

[Ethan]

When a man's right, he's right. I got a '61 Tremolux running '84s at 440V! I hardly ever use it 'cause it costs too much to feed. All my 6V6 amps have their original tubes (ok, maybe not all, but most) and they're all going strong.
'84s sound great, but they're not too butch.

Ethan

[JonFrum]

Could someone explain to me what the Sarge was saying in that first post....? It sure looked interesting, but I'm darned if I could figure out what the hell he was saying. Maybe he's been suffering from combat stress....

Translation: we're using the wrong tubes and building the wrong amp.

[bentonAR18]

I think he is also saying 1) good EL84's are getting hard to find and high voltages use them up quick; save them for the big occaisions 2) the 6V6's last forever and sound great, too.

OK, since I'm just a buck private I'll ask: what are a couple of good simple 6V6 designs that have about the same loadness level as my dimed 18 watter?

[allynmey]

Hi Sarge!!! I'd like to requisition some more Telams if you got 'em

Allynmey

[phsyconoodler]

EL-84's are the tube of today,is what the sarge is trying to say.You can't get modern tones from a 6V6.You can't do Led Zeppelin with 6V6's.Well you can,but it's not the same.You can do Buddy Guy with 6V6's.You can do pretty much anything with EL-84's,but they sound best when they are screamin' for mercy.But they fry up real soon at that level.The sarge is sending me some of his loved ones soon and we'll see what we can see then.

[sgtoverdrive]

yar noodle man! bulls eye ,you guys might make rifle companys after all .exaclty what i mean .my solution is not an easy one i purchased about 4 duets of these sly 7189s blackplate and grey limited producition sound amazing american tubes when they are new like this just ooze the stuff of dreams .ive got an on going torture test on all these the best sounding ones however nos die horrible deaths behind the and under the throttle of 18s they have no rival as you say but sure enough when you four bangem your settin them up for execution! i think the 6v6 gets a bad rap cause of the puny circuit its usually doomed to inhabit.i mean look at a 5e3 circuit and the ones we use here,just a tad different but the 6v is pretty impressive in single end and four output arrangement .buddy of mine built one out of an old magnavox 50s style stereo.4 sly lightnings in it. definetly our kind of territory .you watch old tacone down in orange county! his eyes are on that tube and a design for it .but there is truth to the statement here that no one has broke out with a superior design yet...also i heard an old se supro with one of these and it floored me.building two right now out of voice of music 8810s see angela for that and small enough to mount in one 18 headbox.now that would scare the horses off the tenth floor ! sgt more impressions of 6v6 please we got some knowledge here and thats power!

[guitar-head]

Hey Sarge,

You have good stuff to say and I read your posts with interest. However, please consider using the space and enter keys. The shift key is optional. At least for me it is extremely tedious to wade through your dense posts. I want to read what you have to say becaue I usually learn something. Please make it easier to do so.

Cheers
Don

[Plexi]

You can build 6V6 18s.. Or as Mark H did,build the 6V6 plexi. I wouldn't over look these,they can make a great sounding amp. Just make a few changes. As for 6v6s, I like the RCA,like they used in the smaller fender amps. They would run over the spec for the tube rating,and sound also sound much better than other 6V6 tubes. I'm sure others have some favorites.
This is about what you might find or compare them to,like the 18. Some NOS can't handle over rated voltages,but some brands can,and also sound great. The Sylvainia,and magnavox labeled tubes were also some healthy 6v6s.

Richie

[loverocker]

I'm with Phil. There are bits of that posting I start to read and understand, and then the babble smothers the sense out of it. Must be something in the water out in La La Land

[HeeBGB]

Hi Guys,

Steve (Mr. Hanky) brought a Germino Head, which ran 4-6V6's, to ampfest. Let me tell you it can hang with any 84 amp I know of. Very plexi like. Touch sensitive and responsive. Lots of high end chime without being too harsh. If you like the plexi sound this amp is worth looking into.

Greg

[rjgtr]

To me the EL84 is the snotty little brother of the EL34. It is like a little EL34 with more attitude. Great to crank and wail with. The EL34 is one of my favorite types but it very loud. The EL84 is a good alternative in a low power setting, but the clean sound is a little different.

A good 6V6 (like the RCAs) is sort of like a cross between a 6L6 and an EL34. Like a variation of a KT-66. In a Marshall style circuit, you can get a good JTM-45 vibe.

The clean sound of the 6V6 is more like the EL34 clean than the EL84 is (of course it is close to a 6L6 clean too). I think if you play blues with an edgy sound, the 6V6 would be a great low watt alternative. The EL84 would probably be more fun for Rock, since it's distorted sound is thicker. It is really nice for slide with all the rich harmonics.

I built two very close amps, one with EL84s and the other with 6V6s, but sharing the same preamp and PI (pretty much). The clean sound on the EL84 has been hard to dial in. The 6V6 sounded great clean from day one. On distortion, where the EL84 amp is thick and reedy, the 6V6 amp is clear and crunchy.

Both are cool.

[sgtoverdrive]

i agree and in response to an earlier post> the sgt is a field noncom he dont go in with punctuation.i dont send letters home if you want eticate call martha steawart here parole officer knows her 20! if you want the unvarnished truth ,..start windtalking ...i dont see any reason whatsoever the 6v6 could not be used in high gain application.still ive got a soft spot in that black area in the middle of my chest for that pesky little pentode .its the worst dal garn pain in the ass ever to inhabit a socket! dismissed!

[herr-uuns]

changing the Sarge's typing etiquette would be like asking someone to change their personality.........
would YOU change your personality to suit someone else.....
who you livin for, anyway?!

look at it as 'stream of conscious' typing.......if he has to think about it.....the message will be lost.......like art

[Dai]

I hope the sarge wasn't being overly generous with his return policy. He could have been unknowingly sending out some of those poor small bottle pentodes out on suicide mission duty in a tube-eating vehicle! Lambs to the slaughter... "Blame the tube eaters, not the tubes" as Jesus de la von Arredondo used to say... (Any resemblance to persons or toobs living or dead is purely coincidental.)

[zaphod_phil]

OK, I got the code books out and kinda deciphered the sarge's battle report.

...vox seems to be the only company in history that made a four banger and look what they do to a nice set of 84s ....murder them in short order in most cases.... its a love hate relationship with this tube for me.....the best ones are 30- plus years old and they were never intended to run at celing .id hate to think what it might cost to keep two ac 30s fed proper during race season or even woodshed season.so my advice as a fellow 18 watter is ..1 find somethin better then jjs 2 dont use them all the time! 3 if you insist on using an amp that averages 40- more volts then the design put out.prepare to carry spares i feed three of these things ...euros are more preffered by most but they seldom last as long as any of these menitoned .the best sounding tubes should be used where it counts,recordings gigs ......the unsung hero 6v6 ..ya have to drop em to completely kill em. hell if you look at a 84 the wrong way the one that was kickin but the night before is layin on its butt the day after.no matter how new or old.ive seen this after partin with 2000 of em.my discovery had to due with running it at 300 volts .maybe im wrong but here it is ...they sound better when they are way higher then that.300 volts bores me crapless on these amps! 340 makes me feel like im usin billy bartys custom plexi ! ........im out there fellers trying to hunt down the last of the big game midgets.but the sgt feels like the lord of tubes has thrown a mojo on the 84 and made it harder to find then a good woman...

Yeah 6V6s have a hell of tone, and can take a lot of volts without sweating. EL84s sound great in the right amps too - ie not weedy Matchless Spitfires. OK, here's the trick with EL84s to stop them dying early of battle stress. First, even if you run them at high volts, bias them cooler, preferably within 75% of max dissipation. Second, lower the screen volts and put in biggger screen resistors - along the lines of Jason's PSU and Screen mods. Your NOS Mullards will love you for it. If you give the screens some TLC, you can run these tubes at almost any voltage you like. AC30s are evil with the way they feed their screen grids with full B+ voltage, regulated by a choke! That will fry 'em good. [This EL84 test report by Randall Aiken says some interesting things about the screens - http://www.aikenamps.com/JJ_EH_tube_tests.html] Third thing to remember is that some of the Russian EL84 equivalents, like 7189As, actually turn out to be small beam tetrodes and not pentodes - same goes for 6V6s. They can handle more front line action than regular (true pentode) EL84s.