Mullard vs New Production - An informal test

[T-bones]

Don't forget the sweet 7408 a higher voltage rating if you wan't to turn up the burner. Very hard to get them glowing. These were the choice in many HiFi rigs, Believe me thats all I use to pull from the auction stuff, most of the stuff with the 6BQ5's were pretty much throw aways. RCA was the maker of them to the best of my memories. Athough Tung- Sol also made them later for RCA and they sported G.E. silk screen. It's funny how I can say how great they sound, but I have a pair of the Russian mil spec 6V6's in my Tremolux go figure. T-bones.

[Wannatone]

After reading the fuss about those mil spec NOS Russian EL84's I bought some of the bottles and tried them in my 18 watt. I haven't tried any further yet but my first impression was the most mushy lifeless and unpleasant tube I've heard yet. To me it seems the whole hype has just been started by some dealers that are trying to push the prices up and sell their stock off as there isn't much left that could be declared as NOS for commanding big $$$.

Any experience if they improve after dozens or hundreds of hours?
I'm still hoping there is a chance they will.

[zaphod_phil]

After reading the fuss about those mil spec NOS Russian EL84's I bought some of the bottles and tried them in my 18 watt. I haven't tried any further yet but my first impression was the most mushy lifeless and unpleasant tube I've heard yet. To me it seems the whole hype has just been started by some dealers that are trying to push the prices up and sell their stock off as there isn't much left that could be declared as NOS for commanding big $$$.

I think there are a lot of different mil-spec Russian tubes around. Some are probably great (going by reviews on this site at least), and others c**p. I've also read that there are some more recently produced Russian tubes that are falsely being sold as NOS. It's a minefield out there....

[rjgtr]

I don't think the Brimars I have are Russian made. The reason I say this is that most Russian tubes, especially those made in the Reflektor factories, have a mirky quality to the low mids that these tubes don't exhibit. However, the Russian mils that sarge sells don't have this, nor do real Svetlanas, so it probably depends on the plant.

Brimar did make tubes themselves in England, but also sourced parts from elsewhere. Some Brimars had Mullard innards and others they made themselves. I hadn't heard that Brimar sourced from Russia, but I wouldn't be surprised. Evidently at one point they were a huge OEM to British electronics factories. I'm sure they did what ever they had to to meet demand.

[Wannatone]

I think there are a lot of different mil-spec Russian tubes around. Some are probably great (going by reviews on this site at least), and others c**p. I've also read that there are some more recently produced Russian tubes that are falsely being sold as NOS. It's a minefield out there....

Phil,

I got tubes that look exactly like on the pics that have been posted on the PP, even from one of the prefered production years ('87). However, I'm not sure if the manufacturer hasn't yet jumped on the train and is just making them the way they have to look, i.e. the 'correct' internals and printing. Who knows what's going on? All I can say is that they sound like crap, fresh out the box.

[rjgtr]

The Brimars 12ax7 and a single 6V6 have made in England on them. The two recent pairs of 6V6s don't, so they could be non English. But they sound pretty much like the single, so I'm not complaining.

[T-bones]

Wannatone, sorry to hear that. Phil is right, there are so many out there. I stumbled on a box of the mil spec EL-84's / 7189's at a government auction a few years back. I was hesitant but at $15 for the box it was a no brainer. Well to make the story short , I haven't used anything since then. If you could post a reply on the ?'s here, I could compare them. How many getter supports, is the getter halo, disk or other. Are there any #'s or letters or symbols on the bottle. Are there any #'s or # between the pins. Believe me, for me to sell my entire box of Mullards these would have to be good, trust me these are not run of the mill Sovteks. There was not one that tested under 15k gm, thats no doubt mil. spec. thats almost double what NIB 6BQ5's read out at. Also the warm up time on these is slower than most NOS types. My good friend is a amp tech and he was amazed at the sound of these through his Vox amp's and a couple of odd ball Gibson amp's that use this tube. Yes I can agree with that some tube dealers are selling the run of the mill ones as mil, spec. I know the Sarge has had some, there probably gone now after reading the posts from the players that felt the same as me. It was near impossible to get them hot. I like to get them showing a little pink. They love it and I have never had one short out in all this time. Like many NIB Mullards, I have had many over the years short on me at gigs and that sucks. I know there is a hudge difference playing these tubes for a little every day, and playing them 4 days a week at 4 hours a night. But I got hooked on them and the worst part of it I only have a fair amount left so I guess when there gone so is my infatuation with them. T-bones.

[Ian]

OK, well I just play guitar & know zero about different tubes (& even less re the circuits), so interesting for me to read what Rjgtr and HeeBGB have to say.

I hear what T-Bones says too, & I wonder how long it takes to swap tubes for these tests (you let the valves cool a while?) … I know that delays of more than a few seconds are supposed to be bad news when trying to make meaningful comparisons (unless differences are so vast that everyone immediately agrees)?

I’d always assumed that the valves/tubes deteriorated over a period of time, either though heavy use or maybe just age fatigue of metal parts etc? So when I got my 18W working again after laying idle for over 20 years, I just thought it was best to change all the valves as a matter course. Well I was forced to change the Mullard EZ81 because that was smashed, but maybe I should have left the others in place?

The ones I changed were two Brimars and a Mazda in the AX7 positions, and two obscure Zaerus EL84’s (plus the broken Mullard). As I say, those had been in the amp at least since 1977 (& probably for some years before that). I changed everything to EH, except for an NOS JJ for the EZ81. Sounds fine to me, brighter & crisper than I remember it with the old tubes, but I just assumed that was because the old tubes were worn out … maybe I should try swapping the Brimars and the Mazda back in V1,2,3 positions?

Just on the nationality thing – the old Brimars from my 18W say “ Made In England B.V.A. â€

[bentonAR18]

A "pull" is a tube you pull out of something else to re-use. My dad used to work for the government (weather service) and whenever they retired stuff he pulled out all the tubes before sending out equipment to salvage. He got to keep all of them when they retired all the tube gear; I got a whole box of RCA preamp tubes from him that way.

[glp]

I recently tried a little "shootout" myself with several guitar playing friends. I had 3 heads of my REVENGE 18 watt head. $ diferent cab configurations too!

(#1)We had a head with the first preamp tube as a Mullard 12AX7 (old pull), the rest of the tubes were new JJs and Orange Drop Caps on the board.

(#2)Another head with a full compliment of Mullards, even the EL-84s and SOZOs on the board.

(#3)One head straight, as we build them, all JJ tubes, and Xicon poly caps on the board.

NO ONE was impressed with the differences of the heads compared to a stock head (#3). So our initial test showed the costs were not worth the return.

Finally, our cab tests resulted in an EV12L winning the 1x12" test, over a ceramic Tone Tubby, a Greenback and a V30. and for the money the 2 Greenbacks eeked out a win over one EV12L and one Tone Tubby.


I thought it was interesting............

[Wannatone]

Wannatone, sorry to hear that. Phil is right, there are so many out there. I stumbled on a box of the mil spec EL-84's / 7189's at a government auction a few years back. I was hesitant but at $15 for the box it was a no brainer. Well to make the story short , I haven't used anything since then. If you could post a reply on the ?'s here, I could compare them. How many getter supports, is the getter halo, disk or other. Are there any #'s or letters or symbols on the bottle. Are there any #'s or # between the pins. Believe me, for me to sell my entire box of Mullards these would have to be good, trust me these are not run of the mill Sovteks. There was not one that tested under 15k gm, thats no doubt mil. spec. thats almost double what NIB 6BQ5's read out at. Also the warm up time on these is slower than most NOS types. My good friend is a amp tech and he was amazed at the sound of these through his Vox amp's and a couple of odd ball Gibson amp's that use this tube. Yes I can agree with that some tube dealers are selling the run of the mill ones as mil, spec. I know the Sarge has had some, there probably gone now after reading the posts from the players that felt the same as me. It was near impossible to get them hot. I like to get them showing a little pink. They love it and I have never had one short out in all this time. Like many NIB Mullards, I have had many over the years short on me at gigs and that sucks. I know there is a hudge difference playing these tubes for a little every day, and playing them 4 days a week at 4 hours a night. But I got hooked on them and the worst part of it I only have a fair amount left so I guess when there gone so is my infatuation with them. T-bones.

T-bones,

what I have here has 3 getter supports, halo getter, printing says '6P14P-EB' '8705' 'OTK 2' '87 V', various numbers between pins (example mirrored '17'), square disk mica spacers with bolted on round mica's... crimped plates (3 each side), 3 rectangular plate holes.. box and pins clean as fresh from the assembly line... tubes look pretty rugged and well made inside.

Adrian

[zaphod_phil]

I have come across some reports of Russian made EL84Ms that sounded harsh. Yes, they're mil-spec, meaning they're very rugged. But that doesn't mean they necessarily stand up tone-wise...

[dms]

ok, sold on Mullards... but there were several incarnations, long plates, short plates, ribbed plates, halo getter, d getter, etc. etc.... How could they all sound the same? Does it matter which type, or does it seem that any (that tests good) Mullard is a great choice for V1 and the PI?

[HeeBGB]

Hey DMS,

We did some more A/B'ing the other night with Steve's (Mr_Hanky) Germino Masonette and Top Hat Club Royale. We gave the Telefunken (smooth Plate) another spin just to see about the rattle and it was gone. The Mullard and Telefunken continually rose to the top of the pack with the telefunken edging out the Mullard. For Steve these were blind tests and he always picked out the Telefunken and Mullards. Both were very sweet sounding and did not have any harshness to them when pushed hard. The Telefunken just had a bit more sweetness to it.

Another couple of stars showed themselves that we didn't test last time. Still not up to the Mullard and Tele but still very good. One was a Raytheon NOS I believe it is marked 6681/12AX7 (I could be wrong about the 6681). It had very nice midrange bark and round bottom.

Another favorite of mine is a pull from an integrated stereo amp. It's a ****. It's very nice all around. Good gain nice highs with good punchy mids.

We also tested a new Tung Sol from Lord Valve. This is a short plate AX7 made in Russia I believe at the Sovtek plant for Mike Mathews/Electro Harmonix. I felt this tube was about on par with the 12AX7EH matched triodes I get from Tubestore.com. I don't think you can go wrong with either of these for new production tubes.

I will take some pics of the different Mullards that I have which I believe are all long plate. (I don't think I've ever seen a short plate Mullard).

I also have a couple of Amperex globe logos and a Bugle boy coming from the Sarge so I will report back on those too.

Maybe Steve will chime in on this too. I did mention it to him. He's been kind of busy getting ready for his gig last night.

Greg

[dms]

HeeBGB - Nice amps to test with, and nice arsenal of tubes to match! I don't think I've ever heard of ****'s (Panasonic?) tubes. I just picked up some strong testing Mullard/Mullard IEC on ebay - it is easy to get a bit confused when sellers are touting various structural nuances in their particular specimen of Mullard ECC83 - no flame intended, but I could see being a bit more fanatic about the vairations if the application is stratospherically high-end audio, but it sounds like as a rule a good Mullard consistently produces smiles in the guitar amp - that's what I was hoping to hear (and hope I will be hearing when they arrive). Thanks for responding,

Davids

[HeeBGB]

DMS-Yea these are REALLY GREAT amps. The Germino is a little more for me though. Steve likes it better too.

I have two different types of Mullard. I actually have not compared their construction differences. I have two NOS Mullard shield logos that can be seen here http://www.18watt.com/files/dscf0358.jpg and some pulls that are IEC/Mullard labelled. We liked the pulls a little better but they were all close. See if you can find a Telefunken smooth plate too. I highly recommend it.

I've really been itching to try some Mazda's. They've been getting some good reviews

I have never seen a **** either other than this one. I'll take a pic when I get the Amperex tubes and post a review. That amp also came with some Japanese EL84's too I think. My brother has them in his AC30. I will have to get them from him for testing. I think they are Hitachi's but it's been a long time since i've seen them.

Please keep in mind that in a band situation you may not hear the differences. I'm not sure I could. By itself though I think you will definately be able to hear it.

Greg Buchalski
Cork Sniffer

[Mr_Hanky]

Hey Guys;

Yup, Greg is right on the money. There is something about the Telefunken in V1 that always gets my attention, it has all of the good attributes and none of the bad. Top to bottom it is great and it just seems to capture more of the wood of the guitar, for lack of a better term .

I am the blind mouse in these tests, I play and Greg swaps tubes and we are almost always on the same page regarding the sound of each. It is not earth shattering but it does make a difference. I am a player so I usually go by feel and when things are right I want to keep playing the amp.

The difference is hard to explain, one of the best analogies I have heard is that NOS tubes get out of the way of the amp, they let it do it's thing without any congestion. That is probably as close as a verbosity minor like me can come to puting it in black and white.

It also depends on the player, some may hate a tele in V1, might be too flat, different players, different tastes, different attack, style, amp, cabs.
There are way too many variables to say one is best.
However, I think the way Greg and I are going about it is about as best you can get.
Your guitar, your amp, you playing, it don't get much better than that.

Thanks for coming to the gig last night Greg, could you hear the NOS difference?
I woke up at 9am with one of those headaches that makes you want to jump off a bridge.

Steve..

[rjgtr]

I got some more RFTs from KCA and these are in GE boxes and say Made in Holland on them. Same construction as the others and they sound great. Not as nice as the Mullards but very very good.

Highly recommended.