What's good in 12ax7's today?

[rjgtr]

Pt2.

Come to think of it, I think the newer JJs are voiced to make Messy Burglers clearer sounding. Unfortunately, it makes a Marshall too bright for me.

[Brett]

In a blind test with my Lite IIb, I rejected 1970s Mullards and Brimars, Sovtek WBs and a range of others. Best pre-amp was a $15 Ei, and then a cheap Sovtek LPS. Best phase inverter was a very old Sovtek pulled from a 1970s blackface Fender.

The Ei has best tonal balance and good gain. The LPS had good detail and low noise (but I believe they tend to get microphonic with age, so maybe they're not such a good choice).

By the way, any behavioural psychologist will tell you that people choose expensive equipment when they are aware of the cost while making comparisons. Unless it's blind testing, it's not really testing at all.

cheers

[dartanion]

I swap tubes around until I find a set that sounds good in each of my amps. If I am not pleased, a tube will be replaced regardless of cost. Again, tube amps are a strange beast and what sounds great in one, can sound like poop in another. Find a set of tubes that works for you and stick with it.

[rjgtr]

Bret,

It is funny, but I have a few different styles of Mullards and some work better than others depending on the amp. The only thing that matters to me is the resulting tone, I always end up mixing and matching. So some amps have a few Chinese Ruby 12ax7s, a GT-Mullard, a Mullard, a JJ or RFT.

Of the Sovteks, I tend to prefer the 12ax7EH or LPS, but mostly in Fender style amps. They have a cloudiness in the midrange that I don't like in a Marshall type amp.

I like how the EIs sound but they always seem to go microphonic after a short period of time. The original Telsas and initial JJ production always sounded good, especially in bright amps. Sure they could be dark sounding in an already dark amp, but they had good gain and smooth low end and a nice punchy mid.

[EBE]

In a blind test with my Lite IIb, I rejected 1970s Mullards and Brimars, Sovtek WBs and a range of others. Best pre-amp was a $15 Ei, and then a cheap Sovtek LPS. Best phase inverter was a very old Sovtek pulled from a 1970s blackface Fender.

The Ei has best tonal balance and good gain. The LPS had good detail and low noise (but I believe they tend to get microphonic with age, so maybe they're not such a good choice).

By the way, any behavioural psychologist will tell you that people choose expensive equipment when they are aware of the cost while making comparisons. Unless it's blind testing, it's not really testing at all.

cheers

I believe I read somewhere/sometime that one will prefer the marginally louder sound source, all things being equal.

I am also suspicous of recommendations from those making a profit off of the recommendation.

I find it hard to believe that it is impossible for a modern company to make a quality tube.

Norm

[jetson]

how does one go about contacting the Sarge? does he have a web site for his whares?

[rjgtr]

I am also suspicous of recommendations from those making a profit off of the recommendation.

Me too! And at the end of the day their idea of good tone is not always your's. I find most of the tube resellers to be pretty good to deal with though.

I find it hard to believe that it is impossible for a modern company to make a quality tube.
Norm

I think there's a lot of quality tubes out there right now. Groove Tubes, New Sensor, Ruby and the Tube Amp Doctor have done a lot to improve quality. Groove Tubes sort of started the ball rolling working with JJ to get some better output tubes going. Then the others joined in.

I have always been a bit skeptical of NOS tubes. But they are generally very high quality. Some work better than others. Some NOS tubes are better in Fenders and some are better in Marshalls. NOS Mullards are generally great in almost everything I've tried them in.

The big issue with new tubes is that the factories aren't run with the same level of skill as the American and British plant of old. Many times the vaccume in the tube is not as high as in NOS. The other problem is in the purity of materials. A lot of the 'repro' tubes are just improvements in materials.

However, the progress made in the past 5 years has been wonderful. Svetlana output tubes are as good as any tube ever made. JJ tubes are always high quality and very good sounding. They don't sound just like Mullards or RCAs but do have a great tone. New Sensor offers some great tubes and some ok tubes. Chinese 12ax7s have always been very good tubes, but now thanks to TAD and Groove Tubes, their output tubes are a lot better. Ei has a great sounding product ruined by poor QA.

Not all NOS tubes are great, even from the BIG Names. I've gotten dud Mullard and GE tubes. But even back "in the day" you could get a bad tube. The quality of the remaining NOS tubes has to be going down as the supply gets lower.

My opinion is to voice any new amp for new production tubes. Make sure it sounds as good as you can get it. Then use NOS tubes if you prefer them, but buy doing it that way, you won't be stuck later on.

[malt]

how does one go about contacting the Sarge? does he have a web site for his whares?

http://mhuss.com/sgtoverdrive/

[jetson]

malt;
thanks much buddy!

[sgtoverdrive]

ebe quoted these two statements I am also suspicous of recommendations from those making a profit off of the recommendation. if you are reffering to me, dont trouble yourself i dont sell alot over here.when i do i back my sales up .so you got nothin to say .what is any vendor of anything bought and sold going to say about his wares there crap>? cmon man.

I find it hard to believe that it is impossible for a modern company to make a quality tube. this shows me that you do not have the slightest clue of how these devices were made and the technology that involved them.no i can most definetly state ..they will never ever as long as our technology exsists on the platform we came in on with electronics in general.reason ? the people you fear the most the ones that say something is great.vaccum tubes require elements from every land mass on this planet . if you think for a minute that any of the carpetbaggers involved in this trade are going to go to that trouble, youve missed your guess completely.as far as cheap carnival hockers are concerned dont go after me or other vendors look towards aspen pittman who has become quite weatlhy spinning the matched tubes myth that so many uneducated people have fallen for .and for anyone to refer to tastes tests involving new prodcution .its like two flys testing crap describing the dry crumbly stuff from the soup of the day. when building a do it your self amplifier a senior builder that skimps on transformers speakers and tubes which in all ways are the three paramount components. should use new tubes .sgt overdrive and then some.

[ab3640au]

Let me first say that I don't regard myself as an "expert" when it comes to tubes I tend to trust my ears more than anything else, and have had excellent results with NOS and good "used" tubes. I'm not a complete "snob" when it comes to new production tubes, however they "generally" seem to lack "character" compared to NOS, and many here have documented issues with microphonics and quality control.
Anyway .. the real point I want to make is that we (unfortunately) seem to live in an age where the main focus for production of any goods is on cost savings & high production, rather than quality. This doesn't just apply to tubes, but to everything. You only have to look at how houses are constructed these days, or new cars .. or even TV's and white goods that we all buy. Generally, the quality just isn't there, compared to the "good old days" - today's goods are not made to last!
I suspect that the same goes for tubes too, which is why they're so highly regarded. And .. add to that the fact that the military was a big consumer of tubes; I'm sure this must have necessitated more stringent quality control, even for the "domestic" versions of tubes. Anyway .. just my two cents on the subject.

Barry M

[1Way]

sgtoverdrive
and Others too
Just shopping/learning for now. What do you recommend for my 50watt Marshall JCM800 in terms of pre and power tubes?

It's a bit bright, but I use a pair of Scumback greenback clones (frequency 55, 77) which are a bit dark, even the 75, they sound great w/my rig. Stock trany's. I've only had recent production tubes so far, I want "better", however this amateur doesn't need "the best".

I am concerned that it does not have quite enough preamp gain, so I lean towards a slightly higher gain tube. I run a gain boost/distortion box up front so that is not a really big deal, but I'd rather rely more on my amp for it's distortion. My power tubes are GT-EL34(A I think, or R maybe, hard to tell). I'm into anything from the blues to hard rock.

Sgtoverdrive, you said

but you know where the best el 84 that was ever made is....my house and plenty to go around.it will give your amp the edge on race day.mullards are second rate compared to these.and im proud as hell to have em avialble.

Which EL84's are the best ever made?

[ab3640au]

1 Way .. I think the Sarge might be referring to the Telam el84's (but he'll correct me if I'm wrong ) .. I bought some of him a while back and they're great! As for preamp tubes with high gain, I really like the RFT ecc83 tube (East German). It's got aeroplane wing plates (like 12at7 tubes) and a slightly larger bottle, so it kinda looks different than most 12ax7/ecc83 tubes. It's more gainy and has a smoother high end, so it might work well for you (if you can find em) - a good choice for the first gain stage preamp tube ..
Now, having said that, there are many great tubes and we all have our preferences .. but this is my 2c ..

REGARDS

Barry M

[twangbanger]

I kind of like the tone of the new tung sol 12ax7 I've only have been using them for a week or so. If you are careful and patient sometime you can find deals on e bay but that can be a crap shoot! Just scored some raythion 12ax7's pulled from a baldwin organ.They sound real nice but not in the v1 slot.
Rob