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New lead dress, new caps, same old problem!
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EBE
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My 2 cents.Shad wrote:Tsshhhh....invalid session!
The long and the short. Don't build it. Buy a GDS 36 watt kit and bypass a lot of headaches.
I have this notion about the 36watter that says someone posted it, others took that work and turned it into short term profits, the poster got no kick backs, the poster decides to NOT give away the fully realized end design.
Why should he? So someone else can make a kit of it? So that the schematic is readily available to every amp builder with an internet connection? Therefore turning any builder into potential competition?
Ritchie has the "secret sauce" (his words) and isn't going to give it up here. I think it has to do with dollar signs strictly. Ritchie can sell his amp to the bands, because one look at the forum will show that few actually seem to pull it off with colors, and he looks golden. Never seen Graydons schematic of this amp, I think he sells it along with his kit. I know from reading past threads that Graydons 36er is NOT the same.
I built a 36 early this year and had similar problems. I was on the road with work about 3 weeks a month during this time so I sent my build down to Richie and he reworked the circuit. Some minor things were definetly changed. Would I share his changes? No. Out of respect to Richie. I have always found Richie and Graydon always more than willing to help and give advice, both publicly and privately. Also, I would fully expect Graydon and Richie to hold back any techniques that let them make them a few bucks on the side or as a means of making a primarly living. More power to them. No one can say that they are not very valuable assets to the DIY community. I still think I could have finished the 36 myself but one can only have so many irons in the fire.
Norm
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Ampdogg
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I agree.
The 18watt existed already so there wasn't much to discover once the circuit variations in the original amps were worked out and a schematic available,which I'm not saying was easy,but it was a procuct that already existed.
The 36watter is a newly developed product by the guys on this board so if there are personal variations,I see no reason why someone wouldn't be a little secretive about his recipe
The 18watt existed already so there wasn't much to discover once the circuit variations in the original amps were worked out and a schematic available,which I'm not saying was easy,but it was a procuct that already existed.
The 36watter is a newly developed product by the guys on this board so if there are personal variations,I see no reason why someone wouldn't be a little secretive about his recipe
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Plexi
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""""Ritchie has the "secret sauce" (his words) and isn't going to give it up here. I think it has to do with dollar signs strictly. Ritchie can sell his amp to the bands, because one look at the forum will show that few actually seem to pull it off with colors, and he looks golden. Never seen Graydons schematic of this amp, I think he sells it along with his kit. I know from reading past threads that Graydons 36er is NOT the same. """"
HUH..strictly dollar signs? A bit confused here..
Sorry it didn't turn out like it should have. Others have built the amp with no problems.. At the start we did get into a rush to get a layout going,and there were some mistakes..I only posted that layout to help some that had started. Then i took it back out of my gallery..but too late..some had copied the one with mistakes and reposted it.
So from there Pete offered to do a layout of the Trex,and Mark did the schematic..I used exactly what is in that amp. We tried to even copy lead dress the way it is in the amp..what wires cross what..
And we also added some new things that it didn't have.
All i can say is if the amp is built right..it is quiet..and no problems..and it will sound fantastic. I have one here that i used mustard caps in,and i like it so much i doubt i will sell it. Since believe it or not..i still don't have my own 18..all those i build seem to go.
But dollar signs.. that white Trex was sold, since it was a proto type for 500.00 and because the guy that bought it is a very good friend. The other 36 watters were complete chassis builds,since the people had their own head cabs.
A couple of those and some 18s are different or tweaked for what the people wanted. And all of those complete builds were sold for less than any kits. So not many dollar signs that i see,for me anyway.
As for suggesting to people not to build it..i can't see that..because it is really one of the best sounding amps i have heard.
As for the secret recipe.. yeah i do have a couple things that i do or use that is not posted. But i have shared with some people i know and trust.
And i have shared alot things on this site,and to people off the forum,plus
gave out the first TMB design and tweak suggestions,and helped many here with there version..and the VTB.. to alot of other things..never asking for anything. And i'm sure you could look back through the search and see all of this.
We have also posted some tweaks to the 36 watter..and their are many other ways of building it. I get no Kickback from heyboer for the tranny set used,and nothing from Nik for the chassis etc..
Graydon doe do his own 36 watter,and it is different..and uses a different chassis and transformers.. And there could be many other versions if people wanted to build them.
If your 36 has some problems..send it to me,and i'll make it work like it should. Or tell me what you want it to do..
As for dollar signs,i'm just a poor kentucky boy..
Anyway..the correct layout is posted..and nothing is hidden or secret on that one. Over the years i have helped Dan,and Danny,Gabi ,Graydon,Norm and many others..and they also return the favor.. And i would never give out their designs to anyone.
Richie
HUH..strictly dollar signs? A bit confused here..
Sorry it didn't turn out like it should have. Others have built the amp with no problems.. At the start we did get into a rush to get a layout going,and there were some mistakes..I only posted that layout to help some that had started. Then i took it back out of my gallery..but too late..some had copied the one with mistakes and reposted it.
So from there Pete offered to do a layout of the Trex,and Mark did the schematic..I used exactly what is in that amp. We tried to even copy lead dress the way it is in the amp..what wires cross what..
And we also added some new things that it didn't have.
All i can say is if the amp is built right..it is quiet..and no problems..and it will sound fantastic. I have one here that i used mustard caps in,and i like it so much i doubt i will sell it. Since believe it or not..i still don't have my own 18..all those i build seem to go.
But dollar signs.. that white Trex was sold, since it was a proto type for 500.00 and because the guy that bought it is a very good friend. The other 36 watters were complete chassis builds,since the people had their own head cabs.
A couple of those and some 18s are different or tweaked for what the people wanted. And all of those complete builds were sold for less than any kits. So not many dollar signs that i see,for me anyway.
As for suggesting to people not to build it..i can't see that..because it is really one of the best sounding amps i have heard.
As for the secret recipe.. yeah i do have a couple things that i do or use that is not posted. But i have shared with some people i know and trust.
And i have shared alot things on this site,and to people off the forum,plus
gave out the first TMB design and tweak suggestions,and helped many here with there version..and the VTB.. to alot of other things..never asking for anything. And i'm sure you could look back through the search and see all of this.
We have also posted some tweaks to the 36 watter..and their are many other ways of building it. I get no Kickback from heyboer for the tranny set used,and nothing from Nik for the chassis etc..
Graydon doe do his own 36 watter,and it is different..and uses a different chassis and transformers.. And there could be many other versions if people wanted to build them.
If your 36 has some problems..send it to me,and i'll make it work like it should. Or tell me what you want it to do..
As for dollar signs,i'm just a poor kentucky boy..
Anyway..the correct layout is posted..and nothing is hidden or secret on that one. Over the years i have helped Dan,and Danny,Gabi ,Graydon,Norm and many others..and they also return the favor.. And i would never give out their designs to anyone.
Richie
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Smokin-Tone
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Wow 
Get a grip on it guy's. There is more knowledge and info freely shared around here than I have ever experienced. There is always going to be problems with builds, that is the nature of it. No matter how well the schematic or layout there is always the potential for something or someone to screw up. I hope Richie does have some secrets and tricks that add mojo to his builds. If I did I would not neccesarily share them with everyone either. That dosen't mean that I wouldn't do everything I could to help someone get theirs working. Richie has never come off as trying to make a buck on this board that I have seen. In fact I was looking to purchase an amp but then decided to build it myself. I had no idea that he was in the business of selling until I contacted him. He in no way tried to talk up his product or convince me that his was better than others. He just asked me what I wanted and then replied that he could do that. When I told him that I was going to build it he generously offered his help if I needed it. I can't imagine what kind of time he has put into helping around here. I do know that because of his contributions (and others here) that I have one heck of a kick a$$ amp. Get back on your build bro and check out the new layout on the site. I for one am looking forward to some clips when you get it done. Richie - YOU ROCK DUDE! 
Get a grip on it guy's. There is more knowledge and info freely shared around here than I have ever experienced. There is always going to be problems with builds, that is the nature of it. No matter how well the schematic or layout there is always the potential for something or someone to screw up. I hope Richie does have some secrets and tricks that add mojo to his builds. If I did I would not neccesarily share them with everyone either. That dosen't mean that I wouldn't do everything I could to help someone get theirs working. Richie has never come off as trying to make a buck on this board that I have seen. In fact I was looking to purchase an amp but then decided to build it myself. I had no idea that he was in the business of selling until I contacted him. He in no way tried to talk up his product or convince me that his was better than others. He just asked me what I wanted and then replied that he could do that. When I told him that I was going to build it he generously offered his help if I needed it. I can't imagine what kind of time he has put into helping around here. I do know that because of his contributions (and others here) that I have one heck of a kick a$$ amp. Get back on your build bro and check out the new layout on the site. I for one am looking forward to some clips when you get it done. Richie - YOU ROCK DUDE!
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NitroLiq
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Shad, you are WAY off base in your assumptions. IIRC, you built your 36 based on the orginal layout which, as Richie said, was originally posted to give experienced builders a basic direction...it was pulled but someone went ahead and re-posted it, leading to a problematic/incomplete layout being circulated. If you haven't tried re-building from the new layout, try that or gut the whole thing and start from scratch with it. Or, send it to Richie and let him take a look at it if you're having too many problems.
Richie is a VERY respected, major, generous contributor to the site and a humble one at that....there wouldn't be a TMB or a 36 without him....he's helped many of these guys now with their own successful amp companies on the tech stuff....try to show a little respect.
Pete
P.S. You were so excited about the new layout being completed so now tell me how that is a blatant step backwards?! I even drew what wires should lay on top of other wires. It's complete. Did this not work for you?
Richie is a VERY respected, major, generous contributor to the site and a humble one at that....there wouldn't be a TMB or a 36 without him....he's helped many of these guys now with their own successful amp companies on the tech stuff....try to show a little respect.
Pete
P.S. You were so excited about the new layout being completed so now tell me how that is a blatant step backwards?! I even drew what wires should lay on top of other wires. It's complete. Did this not work for you?
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allynmey
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Shad, ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!! 
I'm sorry you are having trouble with your amp but, are you serious?
Ritchie has helped more people on this forum than anyone else I've seen!He's sat by his computer til 3 a.m. helping me through an amp problem and so has his brother! I don't remember him asking for anything in return. As for the 36 watter, I'm currently am building the new layout and remember holding out because Ritchie saying some of the layouts aren't correct and need updating. He spent a lot of time with Pete to finalize a FREE layout for the masses of his ORIGINAL build! Frustration with an amp is natural but, I don't think you ought to blame Ritchie! Don't take offense to this post, I just think we need a reality check here.
Allynmey
I'm sorry you are having trouble with your amp but, are you serious?
Ritchie has helped more people on this forum than anyone else I've seen!He's sat by his computer til 3 a.m. helping me through an amp problem and so has his brother! I don't remember him asking for anything in return. As for the 36 watter, I'm currently am building the new layout and remember holding out because Ritchie saying some of the layouts aren't correct and need updating. He spent a lot of time with Pete to finalize a FREE layout for the masses of his ORIGINAL build! Frustration with an amp is natural but, I don't think you ought to blame Ritchie! Don't take offense to this post, I just think we need a reality check here.
Allynmey
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Billabong
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Everyone's dream
Shad,
Well I think that all of us that get the amp building bug dream of building amps for a living, but the fact of the matter is, it is a dog eat dog business and you need any edge you can get to succeed.
I can't count the number of Dumble bashing threads I have read regarding his gooping up his boards to prevent reverse engineering of his tweaks. Patents in this business are worthless so all we can do is be secretive when we mix an especially tasty stew. There are some folks in here who have gotten really feverish from the "I wanna get rich doing this and quit my day job!" bug bite, but Richie aint' one of them.
Richie is indeed responsible for the posting of a working 36 watt layout and schematic. If you build it correctly, it will sing. Obviously, you need to take a deep breath, look at the correct schematics/layouts and ask Richie for help on this forum getting it right. I know he will help you because he is indeed a good old boy from Kentucky who has helped alot of folks already. Don't give up yet. You're at the edge of great tone.
Well I think that all of us that get the amp building bug dream of building amps for a living, but the fact of the matter is, it is a dog eat dog business and you need any edge you can get to succeed.
I can't count the number of Dumble bashing threads I have read regarding his gooping up his boards to prevent reverse engineering of his tweaks. Patents in this business are worthless so all we can do is be secretive when we mix an especially tasty stew. There are some folks in here who have gotten really feverish from the "I wanna get rich doing this and quit my day job!" bug bite, but Richie aint' one of them.
Richie is indeed responsible for the posting of a working 36 watt layout and schematic. If you build it correctly, it will sing. Obviously, you need to take a deep breath, look at the correct schematics/layouts and ask Richie for help on this forum getting it right. I know he will help you because he is indeed a good old boy from Kentucky who has helped alot of folks already. Don't give up yet. You're at the edge of great tone.
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Ampdogg
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I would just like to say that I started building amps almost 15 years ago without a clue of what was going on inside of one.I was fortunate to have 2 older friends that new what they were doing,but I had to pry out of them what I wanted to know.It was like they wanted me to learn on my own slowly,which in retrospect I am glad they did.I learned more from those two than from just about anybody about amps,even though I had an electronic background.
Other than that coming here 3 or 4 years ago browsing and then finaaly joining,I've come to appreciate,
Plexi(Richie),Gabi,Mark Huss,the other Mark,Graydon,PhilUK,and a few others,because they don't really hold back "knowledge".They may or not cling to some well earned tonal secrets,but I've learned alot from these fine fellows and have the utmost respect for them because I know if I have a problem with a build,one of these guys,if not all of them will be right there to help,free of charge!!
There is A LOT of experience here that none of us pay for.We all share our experience and learn together and thats why I think This is the best forum on the net.
I hope Richie didn't take offense to my earlier post,I was just trying to make a point that Richie or anyone else are here to help,but they're not going to come to your shop and wire the thing up for you.
I can't speak for everyone here,but I know for me,even if I make a successful first attempt at a circuit,I'm gonna still experiment with it and make some mistakes and discoveries along the way.Some of which I may keep to myself because I did the work.
And there ain't a damn thing wrong with that.
Ok
Rant over.
It's 2006 lets get back to building amps,and for Pete's sake(whoever Pete is)let's just all have some fun here ok?
Other than that coming here 3 or 4 years ago browsing and then finaaly joining,I've come to appreciate,
Plexi(Richie),Gabi,Mark Huss,the other Mark,Graydon,PhilUK,and a few others,because they don't really hold back "knowledge".They may or not cling to some well earned tonal secrets,but I've learned alot from these fine fellows and have the utmost respect for them because I know if I have a problem with a build,one of these guys,if not all of them will be right there to help,free of charge!!
There is A LOT of experience here that none of us pay for.We all share our experience and learn together and thats why I think This is the best forum on the net.
I hope Richie didn't take offense to my earlier post,I was just trying to make a point that Richie or anyone else are here to help,but they're not going to come to your shop and wire the thing up for you.
I can't speak for everyone here,but I know for me,even if I make a successful first attempt at a circuit,I'm gonna still experiment with it and make some mistakes and discoveries along the way.Some of which I may keep to myself because I did the work.
And there ain't a damn thing wrong with that.
Ok
Rant over.
It's 2006 lets get back to building amps,and for Pete's sake(whoever Pete is)let's just all have some fun here ok?
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Shad
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Alright hang on a second please. The whole invalid session thing made the second posting a rather blunt sort of thing, so I understand the confusion of my take on this.
Did not mean to imply that Ritchie was making any money off of the 36er, in fact I was rather implying that maybe the lack of him making any money from it, while others clearly have (they have my money anyway), could perhaps make him not want to reveal any further advances the design has made. Again please know this is/was assumption, therefore subject to be completely wrong and even offbase. My first post clearly said this was all assumption, and likely based largey in my own paranoia of things. That was not said in the second post...oh well.
Also, for the record, I have zero qualms about his design "secrets". That statement did stir my minds thoughts about the whole thing, but I would never suggest that I nor anyone else had some kind of right to that. So please don't think I am pissed that Ritchie Graydon or anyone else, may or may not care to share anything. I am absolutely 100% cool with that.
Now if you don't totaly hate me by the end of this post I'd be happy to send you either of my amps, you pick, one has a lead dress as close as I could come to yours in some pic you posted. Anyway either one, please, yes make me eat crow, I'll relish in eating that blackbird. The thing is though, I only want it to do what YOU had intended of the circuit. What I want it to do is just be correct and I don't know "tone approved by Plexi" stamped on it.
And please everyone, understand I do not want anyone secrets outright. I think selling them say part and parcel with a kit is fair game. I just wished when I had plunked down I had went with a kit that came with that already. The kit I got had no secret sauce included with the price I paid.
So I am ALL for folks having secrets and making a little bread from their work. I simply wished I had bought a kit from Graydon, or that you yourself made a kit and I had bought that. Buying a kit of your circuit, from someone else, while you really get nothing from it, and then you have to help everyone that buys the kit, errors and all, who ends up here. I could see where this would wear a man down, and suspected that is why some emails to you of mine went unanswered. Which is why I felt toasted on this whole thing. I felt I didn't have a right to bother you with it, as you made nothing from it, and hence the silence.
So for the last damn time I think Ritchie is freakin awesome for what he has given away. I just started to feel like I was being ignored because I bought a kit form the dude who happened to run with HIS idea and he was sick of cleaning up the mess that someone else created by taking his idea, even though Ritchie said it was not complete and with errors etc. **** if I posted a preliminary layout for my knowledgable tube friends to check out, and some other guy made a whole kit form that, and people started showing up with problems I doubt very seriously that I would feel responsible to help each and every one of the poor saps.
But knowing that doesn't make being one of the people that did not get a lot of help from him any more fun. It always seemed like he would pop back in to see if I made progress but then would never reappear to suggest anything futher.
Damn it all, I missed new years typing at length about amps I can't play instead of playing the ones I can.
I am sure this will only make more poeple want to reply to me saying I am this or that, or saying that because of something I said that I must think Ritchie is a fink or a money hoarder or that I hate the guy or have no respect for the guy, want to murder his guitars, whatever. None of that is true. I am just a normal person who kinda felt burned buying a kit that no one should have been selling, I was making braod assumptions that people took the wrong way. I think the best solution is that Ritchie, with the help of all the people he has helped along the way, gets a 36 watt kit for sale, with enough mojo sauce included to go around. I'd be the first person to buy that one!!!! What I would like to see is Ritchie actually making a dime from all this effort. Maybe then I wouldn't feel guilty trying to ask him something about the amp he designed AND sold me.
Going to bed now with very sore fingers. My appologies to the forum at large and to Ritchie directly, I never meant to point a finger at you and say you were making any money, if anythingn I was pointing saying "why is no paying this guy? I felt you NOT getting paid anything while others did from your work was making it murky water for people like me. That is all.
Now where is the exhausted icon on this thing?
Did not mean to imply that Ritchie was making any money off of the 36er, in fact I was rather implying that maybe the lack of him making any money from it, while others clearly have (they have my money anyway), could perhaps make him not want to reveal any further advances the design has made. Again please know this is/was assumption, therefore subject to be completely wrong and even offbase. My first post clearly said this was all assumption, and likely based largey in my own paranoia of things. That was not said in the second post...oh well.
Also, for the record, I have zero qualms about his design "secrets". That statement did stir my minds thoughts about the whole thing, but I would never suggest that I nor anyone else had some kind of right to that. So please don't think I am pissed that Ritchie Graydon or anyone else, may or may not care to share anything. I am absolutely 100% cool with that.
Well this is kinda where I began to think something was strange. I mean I end buying some kits of this amp, end up here after the layout that came with it turns up a few blatant mistakes, find out that you had yanked it after showing a preliminary layout around. The kits were no longer for sale at that site, the word around here was that it simply wasn't a complete layout. So, it seems to me that someone took ytour idea and ran with it. Right or wrong it really seems I bought a kit taken from your design, which was incomplete. So if anything I am not at all bitter at you my friend, but I may have been with the source that I got the kits from. I thought things were a litle more complete, they were not. I paid a lot for them, it kinda sucked to have to reseach every detail about this amp through 100's of threads. There was no single complete answer to all the mistakes in one place. I had to cull them from here and there. Not what I thought I was bargaining for, again not that you are to blame for that.Sorry it didn't turn out like it should have. Others have built the amp with no problems.. At the start we did get into a rush to get a layout going,and there were some mistakes..I only posted that layout to help some that had started. Then i took it back out of my gallery..but too late..some had copied the one with mistakes and reposted it.
Yeah when this new schematic was being put together I thought it may reveal something new for me. It did not. I had culled al that on my own already. I haven't looked at it in months, maybe there is something new I haven't gleaned yet. When the coupling caps to the power stage were increased I was really thrown off. My opinion is that the two builds I have do not need bigger caps and more bass through there. I honestly felt perhaps you were trying to distance the "secret sauce stuff" even further away from the posted layout. Again, not that I would ever blame you for that if indeed that were so (not saying it is guys, please) but none of the changes helped my amps tone really in the least. Sorry just my opinion of MY builds of this circuit.So from there Pete offered to do a layout of the Trex,and Mark did the schematic..I used exactly what is in that amp. We tried to even copy lead dress the way it is in the amp..what wires cross what..
And we also added some new things that it didn't have.
All i can say is if the amp is built right..it is quiet..and no problems..and it will sound fantastic. I have one here that i used mustard caps in,and i like it so much i doubt i will sell it. Since believe it or not..i still don't have my own 18..all those i build seem to go.
Again that fact is why I would suspect, even wrongly, that perhaps you would be kinda not all that eager to give away anymore with the 36er. As far as I could tell there was some big buzz about your 36watter in a professional band, if I were you I would consider not sharing much of my 36watt design anymore, and perhaps try to take that energy and see if I could advance on it. I certainly don't think that is an unreasonbale line of thinking, but perhaps it was a thought I shoud have kept to myself.So not many dollar signs that i see,for me anyway.
Well, the story may be different now that there is at the least a correct layout, that is not chock full of errors. However, that was not the case when I was sold kits for the amp. So I'll take that back, however I will still stand behind my thinking that it would be better, for me, to stick to amp designs that I already have a sense of what they should sound like, this makes judging the end result much easier for me. There is less subjectivity in that, I know what those amps are supposed to sound like and knowing if it is "right" is a lot easier.As for suggesting to people not to build it..i can't see that..because it is really one of the best sounding amps i have heard.
As for the secret recipe.. yeah i do have a couple things that i do or use that is not posted. But i have shared with some people i know and trust.
And i have shared alot things on this site,and to people off the forum,plus
gave out the first TMB design and tweak suggestions,and helped many here with there version..and the VTB.. to alot of other things..never asking for anything. And i'm sure you could look back through the search and see all of this.
OMG I have read so many of your posts trying to correct those initial errors it isn't even funny. I am well aware of your contribution here.As for the secret recipe.. yeah i do have a couple things that i do or use that is not posted. But i have shared with some people i know and trust.
And i have shared alot things on this site,and to people off the forum,plus
gave out the first TMB design and tweak suggestions,and helped many here with there version..and the VTB.. to alot of other things..never asking for anything. And i'm sure you could look back through the search and see all of this.
The first two sentences are at the root of why I would not recommend this amp, at least to the novice builder who wants to build it and then just play guitar. Too much ambiguity as to what it should sound like. I can't really suggest to someone to build an amp that they can't play first and get a real sense of what it is.We have also posted some tweaks to the 36 watter..and their are many other ways of building it. I get no Kickback from heyboer for the tranny set used,and nothing from Nik for the chassis etc..
Graydon doe do his own 36 watter,and it is different..and uses a different chassis and transformers.. And there could be many other versions if people wanted to build them.
If your 36 has some problems..send it to me,and i'll make it work like it should. Or tell me what you want it to do..
Now if you don't totaly hate me by the end of this post I'd be happy to send you either of my amps, you pick, one has a lead dress as close as I could come to yours in some pic you posted. Anyway either one, please, yes make me eat crow, I'll relish in eating that blackbird. The thing is though, I only want it to do what YOU had intended of the circuit. What I want it to do is just be correct and I don't know "tone approved by Plexi" stamped on it.
For the love of god I know your just a poor boy, me too, why I had some resentment over being sold a kit of an amp and given a layout with errors, and again NOT YOUR FAULT! but being poor and plunking down for a kit that ends up coming from a layout posted with errors... possibly used without permission. Made me feel stupid and poor, a rotten combo.As for dollar signs,i'm just a poor kentucky boy..
Anyway..the correct layout is posted..and nothing is hidden or secret on that one. Over the years i have helped Dan,and Danny,Gabi ,Graydon,Norm and many others..and they also return the favor.. And i would never give out their designs to anyone.
And please everyone, understand I do not want anyone secrets outright. I think selling them say part and parcel with a kit is fair game. I just wished when I had plunked down I had went with a kit that came with that already. The kit I got had no secret sauce included with the price I paid.
So I am ALL for folks having secrets and making a little bread from their work. I simply wished I had bought a kit from Graydon, or that you yourself made a kit and I had bought that. Buying a kit of your circuit, from someone else, while you really get nothing from it, and then you have to help everyone that buys the kit, errors and all, who ends up here. I could see where this would wear a man down, and suspected that is why some emails to you of mine went unanswered. Which is why I felt toasted on this whole thing. I felt I didn't have a right to bother you with it, as you made nothing from it, and hence the silence.
Shad, you are WAY off base in your assumptions. IIRC, you built your 36 based on the orginal layout which, as Richie said, was originally posted to give experienced builders a basic direction...it was pulled but someone went ahead and re-posted it, leading to a problematic/incomplete layout being circulated. If you haven't tried re-building from the new layout, try that or gut the whole thing and start from scratch with it. Or, send it to Richie and let him take a look at it if you're having too many problems.
And others even made kits and sold them as "whole". This created bigger problems that people reposting the layout I feel. I would have much rather gotten a kit AFTER it had been fully tested and twekaed to the desingers full intent.but someone went ahead and re-posted it, leading to a problematic/incomplete layout being circulated.
Your reading what I am saying about this all wrong, I have upmost respect for Ritchie, I am sorry this was not clear.try to show a little respect.
Well no denying that he has helped plenty of people around here. Unfortunately, my attempts to elicit help from him directly went for the most part unanswered. What was I supposed to think? That he really wanted to help me fix the amp that someone else sold me wihtout kicking him somethign for it. I could not blame the guy at all, but I can't say it feels great to be ignored either. Great that he was able to help you, I don't think he has the time to help everyone, and I must be one of the unlucky ones.I'm sorry you are having trouble with your amp but, are you serious?
Ritchie has helped more people on this forum than anyone else I've seen!He's sat by his computer til 3 a.m. helping me through an amp problem and so has his brother! I don't remember him asking for anything in return. As for the 36 watter, I'm currently am building the new layout and remember holding out because Ritchie saying some of the layouts aren't correct and need updating. He spent a lot of time with Pete to finalize a FREE layout for the masses of his ORIGINAL build! Frustration with an amp is natural but, I don't think you ought to blame Ritchie! Don't take offense to this post, I just think we need a reality check here.
So for the last damn time I think Ritchie is freakin awesome for what he has given away. I just started to feel like I was being ignored because I bought a kit form the dude who happened to run with HIS idea and he was sick of cleaning up the mess that someone else created by taking his idea, even though Ritchie said it was not complete and with errors etc. **** if I posted a preliminary layout for my knowledgable tube friends to check out, and some other guy made a whole kit form that, and people started showing up with problems I doubt very seriously that I would feel responsible to help each and every one of the poor saps.
But knowing that doesn't make being one of the people that did not get a lot of help from him any more fun. It always seemed like he would pop back in to see if I made progress but then would never reappear to suggest anything futher.
Sadly I do not think the board that came in my kit can be reworked into this new layout. I fear I might just end up putting many hours into it and have the results be worse than now. After trying two builds with that first layout, redoing the second one to match with Ritchies posted pics of one of his amps, tons and tons of hours, I just don't know if I can stand to do that and have it not floor me. I fear it would either be worse, or just the same at which point I'd just freaking die.Richie is indeed responsible for the posting of a working 36 watt layout and schematic. If you build it correctly, it will sing.
Damn it all, I missed new years typing at length about amps I can't play instead of playing the ones I can.
I am sure this will only make more poeple want to reply to me saying I am this or that, or saying that because of something I said that I must think Ritchie is a fink or a money hoarder or that I hate the guy or have no respect for the guy, want to murder his guitars, whatever. None of that is true. I am just a normal person who kinda felt burned buying a kit that no one should have been selling, I was making braod assumptions that people took the wrong way. I think the best solution is that Ritchie, with the help of all the people he has helped along the way, gets a 36 watt kit for sale, with enough mojo sauce included to go around. I'd be the first person to buy that one!!!! What I would like to see is Ritchie actually making a dime from all this effort. Maybe then I wouldn't feel guilty trying to ask him something about the amp he designed AND sold me.
Going to bed now with very sore fingers. My appologies to the forum at large and to Ritchie directly, I never meant to point a finger at you and say you were making any money, if anythingn I was pointing saying "why is no paying this guy? I felt you NOT getting paid anything while others did from your work was making it murky water for people like me. That is all.
Now where is the exhausted icon on this thing?
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ninoman123
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Well I built a 36 watter from that old layout. Besides fixing the one ground error and moving the 470k resistors to the grid of V2,everything is perfect. Ok I wont say perfect yet because I just finished this build. I played for about an hour today through my LP copy and loved it. Havent played it through my strat yet. I dont hear any low end farts or buzzes. Only hiss I get is when its cranked, but thats normal. I did hear some rattling, but that came from other things in the room rattling off the tables cuz this thing is so loud! 
I used no secret methods. Went through normal lead dress. Ive got shielded inputs, short wire runs, a nice solid grounding scheme, etc etc. So it is possible to get this amp correct. I did it and Im 17. Maybe I can post pictures of my build so you can compare things.
I dont want to fan any flames so Im not going to say much, but this build is good. Even with the old layout you can get awesome results. If you want, I can help or try to. The 36 watter is scary territory because its pretty much vastly unexplored and I think thats what led me to it in the first place. So stick with it because itll turn out nice eventually.
I used no secret methods. Went through normal lead dress. Ive got shielded inputs, short wire runs, a nice solid grounding scheme, etc etc. So it is possible to get this amp correct. I did it and Im 17. Maybe I can post pictures of my build so you can compare things.
I dont want to fan any flames so Im not going to say much, but this build is good. Even with the old layout you can get awesome results. If you want, I can help or try to. The 36 watter is scary territory because its pretty much vastly unexplored and I think thats what led me to it in the first place. So stick with it because itll turn out nice eventually.
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NewGuitar
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- Joined: Sat 10/23/04 2:00 am
- Location: Houston Texas
This is meant as a VERY humble, even apologetic post... and a post to help another newbie... Honestly.
Let's take this thread back to the origional topic.
Shad - The problem you origionally described in this thread reads identical to one of the problems I discoverd with my speaker cabinet, after I built the amp I have working now. (The amp is a 36 watt head.) Above 1/2 volume it would distort very badly. Here's what I did to correct it.
Jacks:
I changed the speaker jacks to the Switchcraft type. They hold the cables in much tighter. I'm NOT using any old Switchcraft type. I'm using the kind that have a ridge along the signal prong. See pic attached. The ridge makes the prong much stiffer. This makes the fit very tight and prevents the cable ends from vibrating due to heavy shaking vibrations from the speakers. ANY loose connection will cause all kinds of problems. I got the jacks from Ampwares. Here's their description:
Part Code: S1PJN
Part Name: Switchcraft style#11 1/4" Phone Jack, non-shorting
Soldering:
I properly resoldered all connections in the speaker cabinet using a good iron.
Iron - I was using a cheap iron from Radio Shack. The Iron I bought (after pulling my head out of my butt
) is a HAKKO 936. It is designed to maintain tip temperature. There are other similar models/brands that would do nicely as well.
Temperature - I'm setting the temp at about 380 deg F and using a broad round tip. I don't have the tip number handy but it's about 3/16 wide, round, and beveled so that the end is a flat oval.
Clean Solder - When you unroll solder from the roll pull it through a paper towel multip times squeezing from different sides of the solder strand. This will remove oxidation from the surface of the solder.
Prep - Before soldering each joint remove ANY dirt, film, grease, oxidation, etc, and clean all connections to be soldered with alcohol. Clean the iron tip by wiping it on the wet sponge provided with the iron stand. The iron tip must be shiny. Then immediatley put a very small amount of solder on the tip before you touch it to the work. Don't use this solder to solder the joint. You are using it to help make a thermal connection between the iron tip and the work. You want the iron to heat the work and you must apply the solder that will form the join to the work, NOT to the iron tip.
Flow - The solder must "flow" on the work. Let the iron heat the work first, Then apply the solder to the opposite side of the work from the iron. This takes about 5 - 20 seconds depending on how big the connection is. When you are soldering components (resistors, caps, etc) in place you must use an alegator clip on the leads as a heat-sink so you don't fry the components with the heat from the iron.
These soldering tips may sound elementry, and they are, but if you don't follow them you will end up with all kinds of trouble. You must be very disiplined and make sure each and every solder joint is proper. They should be satin-shiny, not dull or look gray.
Again, I had problems exactly as you origionally describe in this thread with my 36 watter. The steps I listed above fixed it 100%.
My 36 watt built is almost identical to the layout from the download area and it is VERY nice. No special sauce, tweaks, etc. The only differences are the following.
1) My tube sockets are rotated so that pin one is the closest pin to the board. The leads are still kept as short a possible, and all the leads from the tubes run against the chassis until they turn up to the board. All such leads are soldered to the side of the board opposite the side from the components. I don't think the rotated sockets make any difference compared to the posted layout.
2) I twisted the ground and B+ leads from the board together, and I have them off the chassis by 3/4 of an inch. This defintely made a difference. Without it there was a small hum at 1/2 volume. I found my arrangement almost completely eliminates hum. My amp is almost stone dead quiet up to 3/4 volume. Stone dead that is until you stum a cord, and when you strum the cord holy Mother of God what a tone and volume you get!
2) My power supply cap-can is positioned differently, but in the same areas as the rest of the power supply components. I don't think this makes a difference.
3) I added a second lamp. I have a red lamp that comes on when the mains is powered on. I have an amber lamp that comes on when the amp is powered on (out of standy-by). Both my lamps in #3 above are powered by the heater lines. The extra lamps and wiring do NOT improve the layout, They make it more prone to errors.
4) I am uisng an impedance selector switch instead of three jacks for speaker output. This also is poor design, not better then the posted layout, but a step backwards.
5) My impedance selector switch is near V4. My feedback switch is near V5. The ground for the feedback is between the center lines of V4 & V5 and back towards the back of the chassis, but in the same plane as the tube sockets. My speaker output jack is near V3. I think positioning would be better so that all speaker output is centered around the center line between V5 & V6, but my amp sounds great as is.
I'll upload pics later.
Important:
I also had huge problems with trying to build the 36 watter. I am a newbie, it was my first build, it hummed, popped, squealed, buzzed, motorboated, and did everything an amp is not suppose to do... I tried and tried to fix it. I got very frustrated, posted a note that I was leaving the site, and even deleted all my posts on 18watt, etc.
I have a 36 watt working now based heavily on the latest layout from the downloads area.
I think 100% of the problem was ME! That's right! Me and my human ego. 
I honestly thought I knew how to solder, that my iron was fine for the job, etc.
The "experts" that contribute to this site are top-notch folks. This includes Richie, Mark, Nic, Pete, Gabie, and many others.
Communicating via text and pictures on a web site can be difficult. Assumptions are made, what someone writes can easily be missunderstood, typos occur, etc. Heck, someone from 18watt sent me an email once suggesting I use a 1uF cap where they meant .1uF (point one micro Farad). That's off by a factor to ten or a 1000% difference! It was just a typo... simple human error.
Take it from a newbie who's walked through the fire of their own invention. If someone builds the 36 watter according to the current layout posted in the download area using proper techniques it will work and work well. Mine does and I don't own or have access to a scope.
Regards...
Hutson
Let's take this thread back to the origional topic.
Shad - The problem you origionally described in this thread reads identical to one of the problems I discoverd with my speaker cabinet, after I built the amp I have working now. (The amp is a 36 watt head.) Above 1/2 volume it would distort very badly. Here's what I did to correct it.
Jacks:
I changed the speaker jacks to the Switchcraft type. They hold the cables in much tighter. I'm NOT using any old Switchcraft type. I'm using the kind that have a ridge along the signal prong. See pic attached. The ridge makes the prong much stiffer. This makes the fit very tight and prevents the cable ends from vibrating due to heavy shaking vibrations from the speakers. ANY loose connection will cause all kinds of problems. I got the jacks from Ampwares. Here's their description:
Part Code: S1PJN
Part Name: Switchcraft style#11 1/4" Phone Jack, non-shorting
Soldering:
I properly resoldered all connections in the speaker cabinet using a good iron.
Iron - I was using a cheap iron from Radio Shack. The Iron I bought (after pulling my head out of my butt
) is a HAKKO 936. It is designed to maintain tip temperature. There are other similar models/brands that would do nicely as well. Temperature - I'm setting the temp at about 380 deg F and using a broad round tip. I don't have the tip number handy but it's about 3/16 wide, round, and beveled so that the end is a flat oval.
Clean Solder - When you unroll solder from the roll pull it through a paper towel multip times squeezing from different sides of the solder strand. This will remove oxidation from the surface of the solder.
Prep - Before soldering each joint remove ANY dirt, film, grease, oxidation, etc, and clean all connections to be soldered with alcohol. Clean the iron tip by wiping it on the wet sponge provided with the iron stand. The iron tip must be shiny. Then immediatley put a very small amount of solder on the tip before you touch it to the work. Don't use this solder to solder the joint. You are using it to help make a thermal connection between the iron tip and the work. You want the iron to heat the work and you must apply the solder that will form the join to the work, NOT to the iron tip.
Flow - The solder must "flow" on the work. Let the iron heat the work first, Then apply the solder to the opposite side of the work from the iron. This takes about 5 - 20 seconds depending on how big the connection is. When you are soldering components (resistors, caps, etc) in place you must use an alegator clip on the leads as a heat-sink so you don't fry the components with the heat from the iron.
These soldering tips may sound elementry, and they are, but if you don't follow them you will end up with all kinds of trouble. You must be very disiplined and make sure each and every solder joint is proper. They should be satin-shiny, not dull or look gray.
Again, I had problems exactly as you origionally describe in this thread with my 36 watter. The steps I listed above fixed it 100%.
My 36 watt built is almost identical to the layout from the download area and it is VERY nice. No special sauce, tweaks, etc. The only differences are the following.
1) My tube sockets are rotated so that pin one is the closest pin to the board. The leads are still kept as short a possible, and all the leads from the tubes run against the chassis until they turn up to the board. All such leads are soldered to the side of the board opposite the side from the components. I don't think the rotated sockets make any difference compared to the posted layout.
2) I twisted the ground and B+ leads from the board together, and I have them off the chassis by 3/4 of an inch. This defintely made a difference. Without it there was a small hum at 1/2 volume. I found my arrangement almost completely eliminates hum. My amp is almost stone dead quiet up to 3/4 volume. Stone dead that is until you stum a cord, and when you strum the cord holy Mother of God what a tone and volume you get!
2) My power supply cap-can is positioned differently, but in the same areas as the rest of the power supply components. I don't think this makes a difference.
3) I added a second lamp. I have a red lamp that comes on when the mains is powered on. I have an amber lamp that comes on when the amp is powered on (out of standy-by). Both my lamps in #3 above are powered by the heater lines. The extra lamps and wiring do NOT improve the layout, They make it more prone to errors.
4) I am uisng an impedance selector switch instead of three jacks for speaker output. This also is poor design, not better then the posted layout, but a step backwards.
5) My impedance selector switch is near V4. My feedback switch is near V5. The ground for the feedback is between the center lines of V4 & V5 and back towards the back of the chassis, but in the same plane as the tube sockets. My speaker output jack is near V3. I think positioning would be better so that all speaker output is centered around the center line between V5 & V6, but my amp sounds great as is.
I'll upload pics later.
Important:
I also had huge problems with trying to build the 36 watter. I am a newbie, it was my first build, it hummed, popped, squealed, buzzed, motorboated, and did everything an amp is not suppose to do... I tried and tried to fix it. I got very frustrated, posted a note that I was leaving the site, and even deleted all my posts on 18watt, etc.
I have a 36 watt working now based heavily on the latest layout from the downloads area.
I think 100% of the problem was ME!
That's right! Me and my human ego. I honestly thought I knew how to solder, that my iron was fine for the job, etc. The "experts" that contribute to this site are top-notch folks. This includes Richie, Mark, Nic, Pete, Gabie, and many others.
Communicating via text and pictures on a web site can be difficult. Assumptions are made, what someone writes can easily be missunderstood, typos occur, etc. Heck, someone from 18watt sent me an email once suggesting I use a 1uF cap where they meant .1uF (point one micro Farad). That's off by a factor to ten or a 1000% difference! It was just a typo... simple human error.
Take it from a newbie who's walked through the fire of their own invention. If someone builds the 36 watter according to the current layout posted in the download area using proper techniques it will work and work well. Mine does and I don't own or have access to a scope.
Regards...
Hutson
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NewGuitar
- Occasional poster
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat 10/23/04 2:00 am
- Location: Houston Texas
ninoman123 wrote:
A typical room in a home (bedroom, din, kitchen, etc.) is not a recording studio!!
Here are the rest of the modes to my 4x12 cab that I forgot to mention above.
1) I put weather stripping between the back and frame of the cabinet. This created a damper that eliminates vibration induced rattles between the removable back and the rest of the cabinet. The weather stripping covers all mating surfaces between the back and the frame of the cabinet. The weather stripping is distributed by M-D Building Products item number 02253, 3/16 thick, 3/8 wide, high density. I put Weld-Wood contact cement on the surfaces of the frame where it was to stick, before applying the stipping. Don't over apply the cement. Paint on just enough to cover the area where the stripping will be placed. Let the contact cement dry for 15 minutes before you apply the stripping. I used the cement because the adhesive on the stripping is poor. You can get this weather stripping at almost any hardware store. Be sure to use high-density. Also, don't think wood will not vibrate just becasue it is screwed together tightly. Wood is not truly flat, and certaintly not stable. A slight gap anywhere can setup a rattle or buzz if there is nothing to damp it.
2) I snugged up the bolts that hold the speakers in. I put washers between the bolt heads and the back of the speakers. These washers came with rubber glued to one side. The rubber side mates to the speaker frame and eliminates rattles there.
3) I taped the speaker wires to the inside of the cabinet's wood frame using duct tape. Anything loose can and will rattle, even the wires!
4) I made certain there is nothing loose in the cabinet even to the point of making sure no wire runs loosley touch other wire runs. All the runs are twisted. I used zip-ties where appropriate, and routing to keep runs well away from each other.
I have no rattles.
Hutson
This is a very good point. My amp above 1/3 volume through a 4x12 makes anything not bolted down rattle. This includes pictures, lamps, windows, blinds, anything loose on a table, etc...I did hear some rattling, but that came from other things in the room rattling off the tables cuz this thing is so loud!
A typical room in a home (bedroom, din, kitchen, etc.) is not a recording studio!!
Here are the rest of the modes to my 4x12 cab that I forgot to mention above.
1) I put weather stripping between the back and frame of the cabinet. This created a damper that eliminates vibration induced rattles between the removable back and the rest of the cabinet. The weather stripping covers all mating surfaces between the back and the frame of the cabinet. The weather stripping is distributed by M-D Building Products item number 02253, 3/16 thick, 3/8 wide, high density. I put Weld-Wood contact cement on the surfaces of the frame where it was to stick, before applying the stipping. Don't over apply the cement. Paint on just enough to cover the area where the stripping will be placed. Let the contact cement dry for 15 minutes before you apply the stripping. I used the cement because the adhesive on the stripping is poor. You can get this weather stripping at almost any hardware store. Be sure to use high-density. Also, don't think wood will not vibrate just becasue it is screwed together tightly. Wood is not truly flat, and certaintly not stable. A slight gap anywhere can setup a rattle or buzz if there is nothing to damp it.
2) I snugged up the bolts that hold the speakers in. I put washers between the bolt heads and the back of the speakers. These washers came with rubber glued to one side. The rubber side mates to the speaker frame and eliminates rattles there.
3) I taped the speaker wires to the inside of the cabinet's wood frame using duct tape. Anything loose can and will rattle, even the wires!
4) I made certain there is nothing loose in the cabinet even to the point of making sure no wire runs loosley touch other wire runs. All the runs are twisted. I used zip-ties where appropriate, and routing to keep runs well away from each other.
I have no rattles.
Hutson
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Shad
- Occasional poster
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon 08/08/05 2:00 am
- Location: Unknown
NewGuitar. Thank you for the posting. However, I don't have that problem anymore. My problem is I can't find anymore problems...
I'll try all the changes and see where it takes it from where it is.
For the record my amps are loud as ****, do not hum, buzz, motor, or anything else these days, that problem is long gone now. I must have something else wrong with it, but the amps won't tell you this unless you crank it up and play. Then it doesn't go off and do anything strange, it just doesn't sound "right".
So thanks for all of you trying to help kill the problem this amp had when this thread started, but that problem doesn't exist anymore.
Off to races.
I'll try all the changes and see where it takes it from where it is.
For the record my amps are loud as ****, do not hum, buzz, motor, or anything else these days, that problem is long gone now. I must have something else wrong with it, but the amps won't tell you this unless you crank it up and play. Then it doesn't go off and do anything strange, it just doesn't sound "right".
So thanks for all of you trying to help kill the problem this amp had when this thread started, but that problem doesn't exist anymore.
Off to races.
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NewGuitar
- Occasional poster
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat 10/23/04 2:00 am
- Location: Houston Texas
Another important piece of information...
I had played another amp through the same speaker cabinet before making the changes I listed above. The amp was lower wattage, about 12 I think. It was a home brew as well. It played fine. My distrotion problems above 1/2 volume did not show up until I tried the 36 watt head with the cabinet. This is not magic. The 36 just puts out enough power for the problem to surface...
Regards...
Hutson
I had played another amp through the same speaker cabinet before making the changes I listed above. The amp was lower wattage, about 12 I think. It was a home brew as well. It played fine. My distrotion problems above 1/2 volume did not show up until I tried the 36 watt head with the cabinet. This is not magic. The 36 just puts out enough power for the problem to surface...
Regards...
Hutson
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NewGuitar
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- Joined: Sat 10/23/04 2:00 am
- Location: Houston Texas
Are you sure it's the amp? I solved a "dosen't sound right" problem due to string intonation on my Strat last night, that I first thought was an amp issue...it just doesn't sound "right".
http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/Elec ... nation.htm
I know this a no-brainer but try different guitars if you have not already.
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rjgtr
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- Contact:
I don't think Richie deserves anything but credit for the 36 watt. The old layouts were suspect as many posts from those designing and working on it made clear. The shortcomings were posted as were fixes. When a proven design was finalized, the downloads section was expanded to include the layouts and materials.
At the end of the day the 36 is another 18 watt preamp variation with an enhanced power amp. It could even be built like a normal 18, except for the power amp. The 4 tube power amp isn't all that mysterious. Compare a Vox AC-15 to an AC-30 and it should be pretty clear.
Plus this is a forum. Information is shared here, but there are no guarantees. This forum has been extremely valuable to me and a lot of others.
At the end of the day the 36 is another 18 watt preamp variation with an enhanced power amp. It could even be built like a normal 18, except for the power amp. The 4 tube power amp isn't all that mysterious. Compare a Vox AC-15 to an AC-30 and it should be pretty clear.
Plus this is a forum. Information is shared here, but there are no guarantees. This forum has been extremely valuable to me and a lot of others.
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