36W TMB + Reverb & Tremolo

[brunapilne]

I haven't owned a Marshall yet [in over 10 years of playing], but I've decided I need one. In a BBQ post I asked about differences between the 18W, 36W, and JTM-45. I got some really great, helpful responses [thanks everyone!] and have decided on a 36W TMB tube-rectified head with 1/2 power switch.

But I want Reverb and Trem. Please don't kick me off 18WATT for the very suggestion. I mean, the Bluesbreaker had Trem anyway, right?! I just want to add reverb. Because reverb pedals suck bad.

Can you fellers recommend any builders who would do this for me? I've heard a lot of good things about Nik at Ceriatone on these posts, but I e-mailed him and it doesn't look like he can [well, he probably can, because he is the man, but it doesn't look like he will] do the Trem/Verb.

Like everyone else around here, I've got pretty bad GAS, which means I don't want to spend a fortune. The Ceriatone was looking pretty attractive at $630, so if you can recommend something under a grand all in [amp, tubes, cab, shipping], that would be ideal. I'm selling my Hughes + Kettner DuoTone head [keeping the combo!] to finance this, and I'm hoping to put a few hundred in the ol' pocket when it's all said and done.

[fightingzero]

You're selling the goregous Duotone?! heheheh So, um, ya have a buyer for it? (not to hijack the thread...)

[brunapilne]

Yeah, I'm going to sell the head. I just don't need 100W of POWER! I think I read something like you're not supposed to sell stuff on here if you haven't been a member since 1976 or something, but if you send me your e-Mail, I'll let you know when I put it on e-Bay. It'll probably be a couple weeks.

I've got a good tech here in town who can build this 36W for me if anyone can hook me up with schematics and parts lists. I haven't seen anything that includes trem + verb yet.

[KevinB]

Hi

I've got a good tech here in town who can build this 36W for me if anyone can hook me up with schematics and parts lists. I haven't seen anything that includes trem + verb yet.

Look up the Vox Cambridge reverb. This has both Reverb and trem, I do not know what it sounded like (sorry).
12AU7 in parrellel to drive the reverb transformer then a 12AX7 reverb reciver and trem circuit. This may get you started. It would probably need tweeking for use in the 36 watt circuit.

I don't know what adding two extra valves will do to the current draw. I think that the 12AU7 can draw up to 15ma, the 12AX7 will take 3ma. So you need to check if the power transformer can handle the extra current.

Hope this helps

Kevin

[PCollen]

I haven't owned a Marshall yet [in over 10 years of playing], but I've decided I need one. In a BBQ post I asked about differences between the 18W, 36W, and JTM-45. I got some really great, helpful responses [thanks everyone!] and have decided on a 36W TMB tube-rectified head with 1/2 power switch. But I want Reverb and Trem. Please don't kick me off 18WATT for the very suggestion. I mean, the Bluesbreaker had Trem anyway, right?! I just want to add reverb. Because reverb pedals suck bad.

I'd suggest looking at the schematic and layout of the Weber 6M36VIB amp kit, and consider having it (or similar) modified to either a) add the on-board reverb, or b) add a buffered effects loop and use a reverb pedal such as the Holy Grail (this is what Dr. Z recommends for use with his non-reverb equipped amps), or some other outboard reverb that meets your standards, in the effects loop.

To switch out 2 of the 4 EL84's for 'half-power' you will have to give each pair of EL84's their own shared cathode bias network, and also their own shared screen resistor. That is, each pair will have to look similar to the 18 watt configuration on their own. If not, the bias and screen voltage on the operational pair will not be correct in the half-power mode.

Good luck..

[blaren]

yeah yeah...all that bias stuff is addressed on the Ceriatone 18/36. If you wanna build a weber, you could probably use Nik's bias "arrangement"...the layout is posted here...anyway..
There's a guy on ebay that builds and sells ceriatone 36RPs. He usually gets 2Gs BIN for the 2-12 loaded combos...immediately usually...and he builds a tube driven reverb unit which comes installed in the combo. I have no idea if that's a kit too or if it's any good but...his name (I think) is biasedmullard. You might be able to find his profile and look at some pics or get an idea. I dont know if he's selling any now but usually if you search completed items for "Marshall 36W" you'll see some of his and the reverbs. FWIW..I wouldnt buy his when you can get one from Nik that is second to none workmanshipwise.
ALSO..you know how everyone "bridges" the inputs on a 4-hole marshall? well you can use the 2 channels like that with an 18 or 36W for reverb. I have a Lexicon (usually in the board's effects rack:( ) rack mount reverb unit. You can plug your guit into input1 of TMB channel, then out of input2 into the reverb and out of the reverb to input 1 of the normal channel. It's actually pretty sweet.
I kinda wish mine woulda had reverb too (not trem though) but everyone...well Nik and maybe Richie say....pff you dont need it!
It's kinda true. You dont really miss it onstage. Spring reverb and DIRTY LOUD guitar just doesnt really "perk me up" that much. Plus...I think ALL reverbs blow except a twin's or a rackmount somethingorother dont they? I mean I couldnt live without it for cleans on my twin but NONE of my marshalls have it and like those guys said...you dont need it for these amps!
So ha!

[brunapilne]

Yeah, dirty, loud, and reverb isn't a great mix. But sometimes I like to play simple, clean, single-note type stuff with tons o' reverb, then switch it off and go for some chordy OD gnarliness. Which brings me to another point--footswitchable everything would be nice [rev, trem, channels].

[NitroLiq]

Honestly, I would build the 36 watter as it is and just either build a reverb and trem pedal or go out and buy a couple pedals (like a holy grail and a pleasure trem 5000) or rack effects (ala lexicon) that you can switch in and out. Otherwise, use a two amp setup, and a switcher...this is actually what Im doing...I have a fender blues deluxe with reverb so that's great for the clean and bluesy dirt and Im building a 36 for the dirtier rhythm and higher gain lead stuff.

The 36 as it is in the current layout uses the original trem channel's tone stack in the normal channel and the trem circuit is replaced with higher gain and TMB controls. You could probably build a 36 watt version of the original 18 watt circuit with the trem intact but from what alot of people say, reverb tends to mar the natural amp tone which is sort of the point of building this amp in the first place. If you build the standard 36, you have your choice of trying pedals and whatnot to color the sound and set up the switching as you need. You could also install a lineout into the 36 then run the split signal into any verb and into another amp to control the wet/dry signal. Lots of options...and much easier to correct than if you gut the entire amp and find you don't like it.

[jaysg]

One possibility would be to build it into the twin reverb chassis/kit, weber sells. I have a perverse affection for things that are more than what they appear to be.

[jzucker]

I don't need trem because I've found that trem pedals work great but IMO, verb has to be integrated into the preamp. Otherwise, stuff like distortion pedals don't sound very good in front of them. Additionally, the holy grail seems to negatively effect the guitar tone.

I have an external reverb unit but I just like the simple fender style reverb built into an amp.

What I'm really looking for (or build) would be an AB763 style preamp (minus the trem) and the 4xEL84 output tubes...

FYI - I have a Torres princetone which is a fender princetone reverb with 2 EL84 tubes and it sounds great. It has that Scott Henderson Dog Party kind of tone...I think the 4xEL84 version would totally kill...

[Stu-Daddy]

"there's a guy on ebay that builds and sells ceriatone 36RPs. He usually gets
2Gs BIN for the 2-12 loaded combos...immediately usually...and he builds a tube driven reverb unit which comes installed in the combo. I have no idea if that's a kit too or if it's any good but...his name (I think) is biasedmullard. You might be able to find his profile and look at some pics or get an idea. I dont know if he's selling any now but usually if you search completed items for "Marshall 36W" you'll see some of his and the reverbs. FWIW..I wouldnt buy his when you can get one from Nik that is second to none workmanshipwise."
Hi Blaren,
I'm that guy you spoke so affectionately about,and I've posted about add on reverbs before in this forum.You may wanna do a little home work about a subject before you post like you know something about it IMHO.I mean just to be fair about it.This is a post from a guy who uses a Lexicon give me a break .Have Mercy
Regards,
Stu-Daddy

[tubetek]

Brunapline-
You indicate that you "have a good tech in town"...Have you shopped this idea by him? The reason I ask is that any decent tech should be capable of looking at the project (or any amp for that matter) as a series of modules / building blocks and assemble / integrate them according to taste. Not tryin' to step on anyone's toes, but if you are going to PAY a PRO to build this for you, You deserve to get exactly what you want; all you should have to provide is the wish-list and the wallet!!!
tubetek

[keith]

With all the -repeated- discussions on this subject, why not just add a reverb mod into the existing schems? Whether it is neccessary/needed or how it sounds or whether pedels will provide this (none of which really address the issue), the subject will continue to come up. Other posts have suggested that only a handfull if parts would be neccessary. Standalone units are great, but again, thats not what they are asking for.
Just a suggestion (hopefully viewed as constructive).

As always, thankyou for your time and your help.
Keith