36w really loud enough for MY band?

[JohnnyCrash]

When I say my band is loud, I'm not pulling the same 15 year old kid macho BS... my band is very loud.

So, the same old tired question...

SO NOW HERE'S THE STORY:

1. I prefer non-MV amps cranked (so far, with tube rectifiers as well).

2. A 50 watt Marshall cranked is actually TOO LOUD for my band (without heavy use of it's MV/Gain preamp fizz).

3. A 20 watt 5D8 Fender Twin head into 2x12" Celestion V30s is not loud enough... actually, I have not tested it with the band, but dimed in my living room, it sounds pretty obvious it won't cut it.

--

So a 50w is too loud, a 20w too quiet...

Will the 36watt cut it then? Or should I go with a 40w Twin (5E8-A)?

--

It's hard to guage actual db and wattage, especially with differing circuits/tube types. A 50w and 100w pretty much sound like the same volume/loudness, to me at least.

[Sweetwood]

first off, the advertised wattage is not the way to judge. you need to do the math. plate volate...shoot, i can't remember the formula (one of the uber tech's will know it and post it). for instance a jtm 45 is roughly 30 watts. I personally think that is a great amp and might be perfect for your required 'loudness'. also, speakers will give you quite a range. I have a vintage 30 that I swear is 2x louder than my tone tubbies.

[JohnnyCrash]

The V30s "sound" so much louder than most speakers I've ever used.

One of the contributing factors to it's "added volume" is the hump in mids it has.

Still, even a 2x12" loaded with V30s has not pushed my 5D8 into the "loud enough" area...

As far as amps, why the JTM45, and not the 36watt?

I'll dig for that formula as well, but I think you've got me on the right trail so far

[ScottS]

When I say my band is loud, I'm not pulling the same 15 year old kid macho BS... my band is very loud.

So, the same old tired question...

SO NOW HERE'S THE STORY:

1. I prefer non-MV amps cranked (so far, with tube rectifiers as well).

2. A 50 watt Marshall cranked is actually TOO LOUD for my band (without heavy use of it's MV/Gain preamp fizz).

3. A 20 watt 5D8 Fender Twin head into 2x12" Celestion V30s is not loud enough... actually, I have not tested it with the band, but dimed in my living room, it sounds pretty obvious it won't cut it.

--

So a 50w is too loud, a 20w too quiet...

Will the 36watt cut it then? Or should I go with a 40w Twin (5E8-A)?

--

It's hard to guage actual db and wattage, especially with differing circuits/tube types. A 50w and 100w pretty much sound like the same volume/loudness, to me at least.

So, basically, you're asking our permission to build another amp? Or do you just need a Zen master to smack you in the face so you'll try all of your current amps with the band first?

- Scott, from TDP

[jodie]

Hello
I built a 36 watter too ( which I have not tested with the band yet). So far I´ve been using AC 30´s, which should be as loud as 36 watters: The one with Celestion alnicos is almost bit too loud ( thats what the singer and the clubowners say...), the one with Celestion G 12M is ok ( but does not sound as nice for me). So let´s see, how things go with the 36 watt. We do AC/DC stuff by the way.
Regards
Jodie

[zaphod_phil]

First of all most 50W Marshall amps actually put out around 60W RMS!

The V30s "sound" so much louder than most speakers I've ever used. One of the contributing factors to it's "added volume" is the hump in mids it has. Still, even a 2x12" loaded with V30s has not pushed my 5D8 into the "loud enough" area...

G12H-30s and Red Fangs are just as loud, or in the latter case maybe a little louder. The G12H30s have more girth. V30s and Red Fangs have stronger high mids and will cut through more.

As far as amps, why the JTM45, and not the 36watt?

Good question. They're both about the same wattage, and will both get pretty dirty when cranked. Then it comes down to personal tone preferences.

[Chubsman]

I was asking these same questions before I built my 36. All I will say now is IT'S LOUD!!! VERY, VERY VERY LOUD.

In a rehearsal setting it's waaayyy too loud. I can't go louder than 2 or 3 on the MV with the preamp volume cranked for maximum distortion. I have to push the front end of the amp with a Boss SD-1 to get enough distortion to play solos with sustain... Our drummer is LOUD and we play ZZtop, AC/DC, black crowes, zepplin , kravitz, skynard, doors, stones, steppenwolf... These are not quite bands either... so I boudt you would need anyhting any louder than a 36W, unless you want to recreat Zakk Wyldes wall of doom (4 x jcm800 2203 full stacks.)
http://www.zakkwylde.com/sdmf2005/displ ... =10&pos=57

[tubetwang]

Zakk is wild.

[rjgtr]

Sounds like a 36 with a 1/2 power switch would probably do it. That would give you a lot of range volume-wise and the tone would be in the same ball park as the amps you're using now. If you want to really nail the AC/DC thing the JTM-45 will do it, but you might need an attenuator for smaller places. The Fender might be just fine with the right speaker. It is all a question of tone and speaker choice.

Or just get an attenuator (MASS or THD Hotplate) for your 50 watt. At a slightly lower volume you won't push the speakers any harder, but neither will a lower powered amp.

[NitroLiq]

The 36 is very loud. I had a conversation with Bud (lead guitar, American Minor who has Richie's 36) awhile back and he was even saying it was too loud for most clubs. He mentioned that he could only put it up to 1 or 2 and that Richie was building him an 18 tmb for the smaller clubs. The 36 is good for outdoor venues.....pair it with a 4 x 12" and you're in 50 watter territory.

[JohnnyCrash]

So, basically, you're asking our permission to build another amp? Or do you just need a Zen master to smack you in the face so you'll try all of your current amps with the band first?

- Scott, from TDP

HAHA, you found me out Scott!

rjgtr, if 36watts will be plenty loud, then a half power switch sounds like a dandy idea for smaller occasions. Thanks for reminding me I could have 2 amps in one

Chubsman, that's the exact kind of music/sound I'm going for. Don't get me wrong my 20watt Twin sounds great too, but it's just not loud enough... although that hasn't been proven in a band scenario, yet.

jodie, I almost went with a Vox AC30. I'm aiming for Angus in the tone department. Hopefully this build will get me there with the volume I need.

[playazinc]

I have recently completed each of the builds mentioned (36w, JMT-45), and i have to say that the 36 is noticeably louder, but not by much. However, if i was going by tone i would choose the JTM-45, hands down. The JTM, in my opinion is THE amp for many of the above mentioned artists. I too play mostly AC/DC, the JTM sounds great with a master volume in my house and is loud enough to be used in a largish gig. For the angus sound the Plexi switch mod is a must.

[jaysg]

3. A 20 watt 5D8 Fender Twin head into 2x12" Celestion V30s is not loud enough.

Is that a measured clean 20W? Seems odd, that's all. Build the 36W because you have more power cutting options than with the JTM45. Half power, variable half-power (I like that idea) and attenuator vs. attenuator only.

[Mojocat]

I've got an Orange AD30 with 4 x EL84 output tubes, (should compare pretty closely to a 36W build), and it is plenty loud with a band. Can't tell much difference between it and my BF Bandmaster or a 50W Marshall sound levelwise, (i.e. they all have more than enough for any club situation I've run into).

[zevoz]

For the angus sound the Plexi switch mod is a must.

How does the plexi switch work?
Schematic?

[yelvertonamps]

I didn't know it could be too loud! LOL I use a 50 watt plexi through a 4x12 and I crank it up! I make the drummer play harder and the bass player turn up. Tell the soundman to kiss your output transformer!!! Just do what sounds good...be "sonically-correct" brother!

Wayne

[twangbanger]

I think that the 36 watter will get you there w/ vin 30's you should have no problem cutting thru the mix, or the jtm 45 maybe? I guess its what ever tone your going for.I've been thinking real hard myself about the jtm 45, already built a 36 watter. But you can't have to many amps!

[PCollen]

first off, the advertised wattage is not the way to judge. you need to do the math. plate volate...shoot, i can't remember the formula (one of the uber tech's will know it and post it). for instance a jtm 45 is roughly 30 watts.

Whoaaaaaa, Kemo Sabe.

I think you are getting static plate power dissipation confused with dynamic power output.

[PCollen]

[quote="JohnnyCrash"]

1. I prefer non-MV amps cranked (so far, with tube rectifiers as well).

2. A 50 watt Marshall cranked is actually TOO LOUD for my band (without heavy use of it's MV/Gain preamp fizz).

3. A 20 watt 5D8 Fender Twin head into 2x12" Celestion V30s is not loud enough... actually, I have not tested it with the band, but dimed in my living room, it sounds pretty obvious it won't cut it.

[quote]

re: 1. Me, too.

re: 2 . Crank it, and use an output attenuator.

re: 3. Did you build this yourself ? Are you using 12AX7's in the pre-amp vs. the 12AY7's ? That amp should be about 30-35 watts but will not be a clean amp at gig levels.

[NitroLiq]

I had a conversation with Bud from American Minor once after a show about the 36 - for those that don't know, he uses Richie's first-born 36 as well as a marshall 50 watt head that Richie modified. For both amps he had the vols. down to between 0-2 and they're a loud band live. Just said that they were way too loud for the typical club. (he keeps the amps lower and runs them through a switcher and into a fulltone soul-bender amongst other effects). He mentioned that Richie was building him an 18watt tmb for the regular clubs and planning on using the 36 for the larger venues/outdoor gigs.

My personal experience with an 18 in a band situation was playing through a Budda 18 at a rehearsal studio with some friends I jam with once in awhile...we play pretty loud and the 18 was fine....I had it up maybe halfway with a little boost from a boss OS-2 overdrive pedal and it cut through effortlessly.