The other bad news about NOS...

[Chappy]

The ONLY people left on the planet that use vacuum tubes are guitar players and audio philes.

Don't forget all of the countries that own Soviet military equipment designed in the 60's and built in quantity right up until the fall of the Berlin wall. They still need tubes too, and lots of em.

Chappy

[Michael]

NOS are definitely overpriced from a tone perspective. Of course, you can't overprice them from a MOJO perspective if people are willing to pay.

>GIANT SIGH<

NOS is overpriced if you buy your stuff from retail vendors. What you should be payin' for is ease of procurement, THEY do the work findin' this stuff and with gas at around $3.00 per gallon that's worth SOMETHING. THEN you're payin for REPUTATION, if you pay the big bucks you better get genuine top quality UNUSED tubes in their ORIGINAL BOXES with MATCHING SPECS and hopefully matching EIA or manufacturer's codes. THAT'S the good stuff, all else is warm beer. Although I LIKE my beer warm...

IF you're willing to do a bit of legwork the good stuff (NOS) is out there for cheap money. I just scored another 200 tubes this month, ALL NOS for audio applications, no horizonal output tubes here! I got 'em in a horsetrade, no money changed hands.

Nope. Mojo is at:

513 South Dudley Street
Burgaw, North Carolina 28425

You are right to a degree. But seriously, 300Bs going for $900?!!! You can get new ones that sound AWESOME for $130. I have to agree that legwork and reputation are worth some $$$.

Mick

[novemberrain]

You are right to a degree. But seriously, 300Bs going for $900?!!! You can get new ones that sound AWESOME for $130. I have to agree that legwork and reputation are worth some $$$.

NOS 300Bs are RARE! About the only place you're gonna find 'em is in an old theater, as near as I can tell they weren't used in anything besides old Western Electric theater amps. YEAH there's a ton o' hi-fi amps that use 'em now but I'm talkin' original applications. BTW I was in an old and unused since maybe the '50s projection booth a while back and there were SEVEN ORIGINAL NOS 300Bs sittin' in boxes on top of the amp!

Western Electric apparently still makes a 300B amp for those who have the cash and as near as I can tell they have NEW Western Electric 300Bs available for it. They're certainly not cheap but like I've said, some people are willing to pay an unbelievable amount for that one percent extra.

Like I've said I take my NOS when I can get it. There are people who will pay $120 for a Telefunken 12AX7 and $325 for a matched pair of EL34s for example, I ain't one of 'em. I can't predict what I'm gonna get and when I'm gonna get it but I can say for certain I'll have more tubes a year from now than I have now. It's not even like I'm lookin' for 'em but old habits die hard, with me it's like the old timers who grew up during the Depression... you can tell 'cuz they got a stash of canned food down the cellar! It's about the same with me, I can remember having tubes fail when I was on the road, pre-internet and pre-Groove Tubes, I'd have to make do with what I could get. I still have to make do with what I can get but all I have to do is walk to my back room and get it!

[titanicslim]

I don't know what to think of all this, so I just stick with what I know. After cooking a half-dozen 6550s in a small Wisconsin town, I learned to carry a goodly supply of proven tubes and other expendables with me at all times. To rely for your living on equipment incorporating 300Bs would be like installing a Ferrari motor in your Peterbuilt. Well... something like that, anyway.

The point, to me, is that there are still a lot of good tubes of all the types I will ever use, both NOS and lightly used, and probably will be for some time. I mean, I won't have to worry about it in my lifetime. And in the event that tube amps make a big resurgance in the near future of mass marketing, there will be financial imperatives to expand and improve the way they are produced. The nimble fingers of little Slovak gals (May Allah sustain them forever!) notwithstanding, modern methods can be good for some things.

I know a few musicians who differ with my opinion, but I would be really uneasy about going on the road again with only current production tubes in my kit. To my ears, none of them measure up, and I'd never make a large bet on one of them working at all right out of the box. And as for the story about NOS stuff being rejects, well, were I to steal tubes from work, I'd probably make sure they were worth stealing. Not to offend any particular persons deeply held beliefs but this sounds like a good subject for a casual thread, like maybe: "What's the biggest crock you ever heard in a music store?"

All my opinions are conveyed in good humor and not intended to offend music-store dudes or others etc.

Dave

[ZOEnIain]

(Zoe) It's rare I'd say this but, as all the AX84ers probably know, my mate John is an audiophool. He's just finished a stereo 2x 2x6L6 amp with UL tranny. He has a bunch of NOS 6L6s and KT66s and says the JJs he has in it are the best.

In his guitar amp....

Well, let's just say he paid a LOT of cash for the NOS Mullard EL34s and six pairs of spares he has. I gave him a pair of JJs and he didn't even play for a minute before he pulled his face. And I TOLD him they were Telefunkens!!!

[novemberrain]

To rely for your living on equipment incorporating 300Bs would be like installing a Ferrari motor in your Peterbuilt.

I got a Peterbilt motor in my Ferrari, does that count? I got sick of shimming 32 valves to set valve lash. Just kiddin' but I'd do it on a dare! A Cummins diesel in a Jaguar makes more sense...

I know a few musicians who differ with my opinion, but I would be really uneasy about going on the road again with only current production tubes in my kit. To my ears, none of them measure up, and I'd never make a large bet on one of them working at all right out of the box.

That puts you ahead of a lot of musicians who don't carry spares! I just did a consulting gig with a metal band, they told me they were "hard on their amplifiers". Their stuff was blowing up every other week, mostly power amp tube failures. They'd run 'em with whatever came with 'em, then throw the amps in the truck without road cases. I don't put my stuff in road cases but I don't THROW them into the truck, either! I made a few suggestions about care and feeding of tube amplifiers which were summarily dismissed, these guys are "sponsored" by a music shop so the shop ships 'em amps every time they "blow one up" and besides, they feel like rock 'n' roll bad-asses 'cuz they're blowin' up amps!

And as for the story about NOS stuff being rejects, well, were I to steal tubes from work, I'd probably make sure they were worth stealing. Not to offend any particular persons deeply held beliefs but this sounds like a good subject for a casual thread, like maybe: "What's the biggest crock you ever heard in a music store?"

No, it really is true. Taking home good tubes was considered stealing, taking home rejects was not. I'm not going to name names because these guys are still in business, same company different product. On the capacitors, a large lot of "NOS" recently surfaced, the vendor packaged them in "grab bags" and sold 'em on FleaBay. There were a few mutant "siamese" caps in each lot that obviously, at a glance, were rejects. I can tell which manufacturer and plant they were from by EIA codes, the manufacturer is still in business but that plant has been closed for decades.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not dissin' genuine NOS here. I prefer NOS, I prefer NOT to pay big bucks for my NOS, I'd prefer that more NOS Mullards, real ones, were available for a reasonable price to I could stand to burn the ones I have.

I'm not saying NOS tubes are all rejects by any stretch of the imagination but there are rejects out there. Thas's why tube sellers including good ol' Radio Shack used to have testers right there, you could tell if you were buying good tubes on the spot!

Several dishonest practices crop up every so often when it comes to selling "NOS", the top two are 1) buyi' NOS tubes, stickin' 'em in yer hi-fi amp, putting the burnt ones with the red ring around the flash in the nice boxes and selling them as "NOS" and 2) gathering up used or "maybe NOS" tubes from various sources, roughly matchin' em up and, stickin' 'em in white boxes and selling 'em as "NOS". BTW used tubes in nice boxes aren't a new thing, a LOT of old time repair guys would go out on a service call back when TV repair men went out on service calls, they'd pull the old tube, replace it, then stick the used tube back in the box they took the new one out of. I've bought out several defunct repair shops where we got entire caddies full of used tubes that had been stuck back into "new" boxes. If it's an RCA carton and it has a GE tube in it it probably isn't NOS!

[titanicslim]

I heard a feller say that he was so happy with his "Hummer" that he would put that motor into a Lamborghini. Well, they are a tractor company...

Actually, I've got a few new Russian tubes in a little Fender I use for practice, but that's about as far as it goes. I have changed output tubes once, and that was preemptive, just for insurance. And I can't even fathom guys going out with out spares. That's like driving that Ferrari without insurance.

And I must admit that I have seen others put used tubes in as "new" and charge for new. What happened to all those "pulls"? I still may start that thread I mentioned. Those guys drive me crackers!

Dave

[novemberrain]

I must admit that I have seen others put used tubes in as "new" and charge for new. What happened to all those "pulls"? I still may start that thread I mentioned. Those guys drive me crackers!

I'd love to see a "biggest crock ever heard at a music store" thread. I started a similar thread on another site and was scoffed right outta there, apparently the topic wasn't edgy enough. Or maybe they all work at Guitar Center...

It's tough to tell tall tales at anyplace I go, apparently there are a few stories at vintage guitar shops but vintage guitar shops are few and far between in my area, the one shop I frequent has a wall full of '80s Fenders then another wall full of '80s "pointy" guitars, they almost never have anything cool enough to make a good story. When I walk into a shop that deals full line Behringer and full line Ibanez is their high end, they don't take trades... whart are they gonna tell me? Either I'm buyin' what they're sellin' or I ain't. What am I gonna tell them, that I don't dig Behringer? It's tough to argue with a $20 fuzzbox for my niece!

Oh my, the weekend is almost over and I scored NO TUBES this weekend! I did sort out a pile of parts to build a single-ended out of, it looked like I was gonna come up short on the proper wattage dropping resistor for the power supply but I found a nice one in my junk box. That junk box is like Christmas, all kinds of goodies filter down to the bottom so it's a good idea to dump it out and look every so often.