Marshall Experts Quick Help Please!! 18 Watt Real??

[Ian]

Hi Wannatone,

OK, on point-1;- as I said, the Tolex itself looks like mine, so that alone wouldn’t make me suspicious. But the garbage about “if a poor condition box is recovered why are all screws, badges , panel, cover , so clean and match the overall cosmetic appearance of the amplifier ???â€

[Wannatone]

Ian,

no, it´s not what I thought I was buying. And, it´s not what the seller told me it is. (I´m sure he´ll not be able to ship your chassis )

The next MUSEUM QUALITY 18 watt amp just popped up on ebay

I actually posted the baffle screws photo because they look somehow artifically rusted to me. The back panel screws (except for the center screws) look almost new w/o any rust on them. And, they have flat heads, not rounded ones.

The points I mentioned are exceptionally major, IMO.

Yes, the amp may be 60 to 90 % original, but they just don´t get it right with their customers that way I see why Burst collectors are so much after uncirculated guitars...

BTW, I have one museum quality amp. It´s a ´78 Hiwatt that doesn´t have any stain or rust on the chassis because it has always been sitting in the living room. But, the cab does just not look as clean as the 18 watt

Ian, I´m in Germany. Thanks for your more than generous offer. I would appreciate it very much. I´m just not sure if it´s valid for US exclusively?

[Plexi]

Just more of my thoughts...
""as reproduction tolex has a differant style of grain as well as having a white backing to the vinyl this can easily be verified by anyone who is familier with original marshall amplifiers""

I don't know where they buy there black tolex..even repro.. yes some does have white backing..but what i have here, i used on another cab..does not have the white backing.. The white backing type is more repro stuff.. the other looks just like the original..

I still think its a recovered cab..they used the same screws,feet,and everything else to put back. I looked at the responses on the les paul Forum..and some may think this is an excelant cover job.. but its not..in my opinion
Wish Jeff Swanson could give his expertice in this area.. Alot of the cuts and places were either done by inexperienced tolex-er..or someone in a hurry.. its just too slopy work.. its not the outside that looks bad.. its the cuts and under or hidden part,where they cut the excess off. And looks like the control triangle pieces are missing..
The tag on the back for 110v or UK voltage they never made a 110v 18 that i know of..

As for the old parts he says he'd send.. and speakers.. that would tell you he can get about any old part to replace them..where did they come from?
they even advertise..if you need any old part,ask them they've been offereing them for over 20 years..

The cab inside looks to be touched up,painted/stained whatever

Now this is just from looking at the pics..not seeing the amp in person..
But i will stick to this being a redone or part borrowed amp..


One good thing..they did offer to give a full refund...
If it was in such good shape, why did they polish the chassis?

have you played it? how does it sound? And i was also wondering.. what is the value of the blue cap, newer looking almost center of the board. Doesn't look like a .047 or .05 looks smaller..

Richie

[Plexi]

I thought this might intrest you too.. click here and look at the transformers.. do these look similar?
http://www.valveamps.com/vfamp.htm

A wem doesn't fetch in the 1000s..and easy swap for transformers..and for al the amps they list,the speaker could be swapped from others too
around the same vintage..Alot of those amps used those speakers..

Richie

[Wannatone]

Richie,

good to know that original looking tolex is available
The control triangle pieces are there.

I heard on the LPF that they use to polish the chassis.
But, this one must really have looked quite dirty. there are still some remnants around the tube sockets and, especially inside the amp, behind the tube wiring.

If I take everything together (flexible tolex, new smell, new smelling pinstripe grill, no dust behind grill, ...) I just don´t buy the story with the ultra clean cab I bet it´s 90% retolexed, regrilled or complete repro.

Do you know if the pinstripe stuff is available, too?

Yes, I played the amp. It sounds pretty damned good. I´ve played thru two AC30´s, too. With the G12 AlNiCo´s, this beast sounds absolutely killer. Ian´s 2x12 with the G12´s must sound unbelievable.

The blue ceramic disc cap is indeed a 0.01 like the other three in the trem circuit.

[Ian]

Hi Wannatone, Richie;-

Well Richie mentions “One good thing..they did offer to give a full refundâ€

[Wannatone]

Richie,

yeah, the parts were pretty common in the UK.

Should I try to swap the amp with the 2x12 they have? Whatchathink?
Probably better get rid of it and say goodby...

[Wannatone]

Ian,

you have email.

Yeah! The solution is clear. Except they would - unexpectedly - come with a very good offer (i.e. to keep it with a serious refund).

Fortunately, the description sayed "Internally and externally all original"... And, the seller appears to be clever enough to get the cow off of the ice.
I´ll let you know how it turns out.

[Plexi]

"""Should I try to swap the amp with the 2x12 they have? Whatchathink""

I think they will want boot..or more money for the 2x12.. I'd want them to send better pics.. and look it over.

Wow thats weird they didn't replace the right value cap.. i thought it looked very small for a .047 or .05 it looked the same size as the other in the trem of the same type..

Bad thing is..now they will be looking at all our details of what to look for..they will be getting better at disguiseing things changed..HAHAHA..

Richie

[loverocker]

Hey WT, glad you can get your money back, should you choose.

The cheek of claiming it "Internally and externally all original" and then sending you Ian's picture (which is his copyright) is galling. I guess they did that because otherwise you'd have asked questions.

I think there's still some story on the front panel and typeface/ground switch things to be discovered. I wonder if the USA-destined 10Wers or 20Wers had panels printed at a different suppliers and ground switches instead of standby...?

Let us know what you decide.

[Dai]

Those blue ceramics are definitely not vintage. That kind of coating on ceramics should be relatively new (I think that's a technically superior coating that keeps out moisture better). Also, I wonder if ALL of the original ceramics would fail in the amp. Also, like with Richie, I think that they could send you non-functioning orginal type parts from their junk pile, should you ask for the original parts. It could be very well a case of misrepresentation to get more for the product.

Dai

[ColinM]

Wannatone
I'm sorry to hear you've spent so much money on this amp. Ian, Richie and myself seem to be pretty much in agreement that it's been mis-sold. If it was indeed that dealer in Leeds you've bought it from, I have to say I'm not all that surprised. I'm not about to start reciting uncorroborated anecdotes on a public forum such as this one; suffice to say yours is not the first such tale I've heard, and sadly probably won't be the last.

It's sad that they place such paltry value on their reputation. Their shop is well stocked, well run and popular. I have only ever bought one item (a dobro, which I use regularly) from them, and found them obliging and pleasant. Sadly, it seems to be their Ebay/mail order business places less emphasis on customer care.

I still reckon that the amp, such as it is, must sound amazing. That's not the point, I guess. I suppose you could have bought an AC30 for 1/3 of that price which would sound pretty much as good (arguably )

The point about the 'ground/standby' switch is an interesting one. I don't remember seeing the g-word on any British - sold Marshalls from the '60's, and yet there it is in the Doyle book, so I have to concede the point. When did Marshall secure Stateside distribution?

Regards, Colin

ps I've now sent some of my original pics to Gabi for posting in the gallery. There should be more to follow.

[Gabi]

Hi Colin!!!

Good to hear from you!
I case you've sent those pictures to my old email ( gabi@pattersongray.com ) that message will be returned since I've shut down my old email account due to unbearable spam.

You can upload those pics here (drag-and-drop):

ftp://18watt:18watt@pattersongray.com

I made a folder with your name. You can put them there directly.

Take care,
gabi.

[Wannatone]

Thanks everybody for the great help to identify the amp!

I´ve already emailed the seller that I´m going with their friendly full refund offer.

Ian, have you ever played your amp fully cranked up?

[Ian]

Hi Wannatone,

To quote;- “ Ian, have you ever played your amp fully cranked up? “.

No I haven't, LoL!

Well it’s damned loud at anything above Vol 4!! I mean I have to think of my neighbours (nice bunch of people, fortunately!).

The clean tone is really nice (playing with my non-vintage standard Tele);-I tried to describe it before (mere words are inadequete, and descriptions soon start to seem too silly & “floweryâ€

[Wannatone]

Ian, you´re GREAT buddy!

Yeah, I played it with the volume at 10! Playing with my converted ´54 Les Paul, I got just right into tone heaven. Especially when I played it through a quad of G12 AlNiCo´s. Just the right amount of grind and highly controllable overtones...

[Plexi]

"""ps:- Richie;- you interested in dome-shaped steel feet (on the amp I mean LoL!); anyone want to see a pic of that?"""


Of course.. thats one pic we didn't see..the feet.. i think they call those glides instead of feet...
hey throw in a back shot of the back board if you can.. Like to see the trim cutting on them from the backside of the bottom one..since its easier..

thanks
Richie

[Plexi]

"""Yes, I played the amp. It sounds pretty damned good. I´ve played thru two AC30´s, too. With the G12 AlNiCo´s, this beast sounds absolutely killer. Ian´s 2x12 with the G12´s must sound unbelievable. """

I guess since you tried the 2x12 speakers against the 2x10..which would you prefer?

.. and they didn't make as many of the 2x12 amps or the 1x12..
the 2x10 being the most made of these amps, i guess also reflects the collector price..

But if i ever could buy a real one,it have to be a 2x12 model..but thats just me.

All the cabs i had made were also 2x12..
I just like the sound and tone of the 12s and little nit bigger cab..and a little more air moving..lol

Richie

[Plexi]

Probably a mute point,since your sending the amp back.. But i was going over the pics.. and a few things also popped up..look at the value of the resistor on the cap can..its not a 1.5K and the screen and cathode resistor look to be both 100ohm.. man that amp would run the tubes hot..

I still think they pulled the sockets.because they are put back in the opposite of any of the other amps we've seen..and you can see it looks like the mounting nut has a shiny spot like a nut driver or wrench etc has been on it.. I looked over in Ians and Colins amp pics..and the wireing is much neater, and sockets are turned around ,compared to this amp.

Any way it doesn't matter since your sending it back..but just wanted to bring these other things up..


Richie

[Wannatone]

Richie,

well, it´s already packed. But, I took a couple of picks before I closed the back.

Chassis_Left

Chassis_Right

Yeah! You´re right. There is a 470 R on the cap can. A screen and cathode resistor of 100 R would be correct, AFAIK.

Yep! They are really running hot. That´s why I hooked two AC30´s on the output to get 8 ohms. There may be some arcing in the tubes at 16 ohms, though.

The chassis looks in person more dirty than on the pics. They have cleaned it just around the tube sockets. But, the sockets might have been out at some point.

BTW, do you know anybody who builds head cabs for a reasonable price? I think a homebrew head would be nice, anyway.

Adrian