18W with reverb again...

kmenard · Post by **kmenard** » Mon 02/21/05 4:44 pm

I was thinking about doing an effects loop...came across this thread again...ran over to the studio, plugged in my line 6 echo pro...

PERFECT!

It amplifies the quited signal which I do so it won't clip...sounds excellent.

hmm...I wonder if I can power my pod pro like this as well and use the effects from it

kmenard · Post by **kmenard** » Mon 02/21/05 4:50 pm

I do have 1 question though...

when you hit bypass or whatever on the delay, it will still feed the signal, and won't that then cancel the signals?

s2 · Post by s2 » Mon 02/21/05 7:59 pm

For delay, I use a Visual Sound H20. It is a very nice sounding pedal for delay.

It also gives me the satisfaction of knowing that KingCrimson is shuddering somewhere every time I step on the chorus side. I think it must be like some kind of voodoo thing. I click and he gets a stabbing pain. I love it! Click!!!

Seriously, the chorus side is a little noisy, but it is a good pedal overall. I'm still looking for a good verb pedal after having a miserable experience with the Holy Grail. The trouble I'm having now is every company wants to put a silly tone control on every pedal they make. How many tone controls does one guy need for cryin' out loud?!

I'm using a Picoverb sitting atop my amp at the moment.

kmenard · Post by **kmenard** » Mon 02/21/05 8:56 pm

so s2...what happends when you click the delay off?

does it then cancel the signal?

KingCrimson · Post by **KingCrimson** » Mon 02/21/05 9:05 pm

s2 wrote: It also gives me the satisfaction of knowing that KingCrimson is shuddering somewhere every time I step on the chorus side. I think it must be like some kind of voodoo thing. I click and he gets a stabbing pain. I love it! Click!!!

Yeah, and then you break into "She's Got The Look" by Roxette, and then you finish out your set with these chorus-drenched lovelies:

Walk Like An Egyptian, Bangles

Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now, Starship

Everybody Have Fun Tonight, Wang Chung

West End Girls, Pet Shop Boys

Meanwhile, no voodoo is needed while I writhe in pain when these are performed.

s2 · Post by s2 » Mon 02/21/05 9:18 pm

Yeah. Then I play East Wes, Trademark, or 40 Mile Town by EJ or head over for some Message In a Bottle by da Police and we all remember what chorus was made for.

Click!

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Tue 02/22/05 6:55 am

Hmmm, a lot of stuff by Rush uses chorus - but in a very tasteful way. Then there's U2 and Nirvana, both serious, butt-kicking bands who use(d) chorus. It's more about the context of the style of music itself and how the chorus effect is being used, rather than that chorus pedals are evil or something...

KingCrimson · Post by **KingCrimson** » Tue 02/22/05 9:45 am

zaphod_phil wrote: It's more about the context of the style of music itself and how the chorus effect is being used, rather than that chorus pedals are evil or something...

I have something to admit. Back about 7- 10 years ago when I was in a band, or when I started recording my own demos, I used chorus, phase shifter, and even delay on too many things. When I listen back to them now, it makes me cringe because it sounds oversaturated. Plus, all the 80s overprocessed sound makes me cringe, although I love alot of 80s songs, I cannot stand the huge exploding drums with the gate on the end, or the OVERLY chorused guitars. I do, however, enjoy how Crimson used it, The Police, and Rush. But in my case, I want to get back to the organic side of things as much as I can because I feel it's better tone and because I want to learn how to play without having all these things masking my playing. It can become a crutch of sorts.

Now, back to the original subject of this thread, if I were to hook up a reverb to my TMB (which only has one TMB input), I am assuming that my TMB channel would be the wet channel that I blend in with the normal channel, and thereby pretty much making the TMB channel useless other than for that purpose. That being the case, I will only have a reverb hooked up to my normal channel via my A/B box.

But if I WERE to try it, I am assuming that I'd hook into the reverb unit, then into the LOW of my normal, out of the HIGH of my normal and then into the single TMB input.

Post by **Graydon** » Tue 02/22/05 9:58 am

kmenard wrote:so s2...what happends when you click the delay off?

does it then cancel the signal?

Keith,

When you mix two out-of-phase signals, they only cancel when the relative volumes are very close. If the two volumes are far off, then you won't notice the phase cancelling at all. In this case, the volume of the reverb channel will likely be very low compared to the volume of your direct channel, so you won't notice the phase cancellation likely.

Try it out for yourself...

s2 · Post by s2 » Tue 02/22/05 10:31 am

KC,

To pull this off using a TMB with only 1 input, you need to use a Y cable. Send the dry to the TMB channel and the other side of the Y through the effects unit to the normal channel.

That should do it for you.

kmenard · Post by **kmenard** » Tue 02/22/05 11:00 am

I didn't notice any when I did it...but I wanted to make sure I wasn't hearing what I 'wanted' to...as my wife often acuses me of doing

thanks graydon!

Graydon wrote:
kmenard wrote:so s2...what happends when you click the delay off?

does it then cancel the signal?
Keith,

When you mix two out-of-phase signals, they only cancel when the relative volumes are very close. If the two volumes are far off, then you won't notice the phase cancelling at all. In this case, the volume of the reverb channel will likely be very low compared to the volume of your direct channel, so you won't notice the phase cancellation likely.

Try it out for yourself...

Cathode_Ray · Post by **Cathode_Ray** » Thu 11/03/05 11:15 am

[quote="KingCrimsonI have something to admit. Back about 7- 10 years ago when I was in a band, or when I started recording my own demos, I used chorus, phase shifter, and even delay on too many things. When I listen back to them now, it makes me cringe because it sounds oversaturated. Plus, all the 80s overprocessed sound makes me cringe, although I love alot of 80s songs, I cannot stand the huge exploding drums with the gate on the end, or the OVERLY chorused guitars. I do, however, enjoy how Crimson used it, The Police, and Rush. But in my case, I want to get back to the organic side of things as much as I can because I feel it's better tone and because I want to learn how to play without having all these things masking my playing. It can become a crutch of sorts.

[/quote]

Amen! I agree with the "crutch" part. It all began with fuzz boxes and went downhill from there. I remember when I built one from a plan in Popular Electronics(or such). Became more fascinated with sound than the music.
Background "textures" such as chorus are great but doesnt susbstitue for virtuousity. There's been a serious lack of good guitar players for years. Go tour AX84 site(which is good technically) and see how much playin/music you encounter. It's all about fast crunch/grind overdrive... dude!

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Thu 11/03/05 11:26 am

asheman_51 wrote: Go tour AX84 site(which is good technically) and see how much playin/music you encounter. It's all about fast crunch/grind overdrive... dude!

As AX84 is an *amp building* site, not a guitar technique site, your comment is very misplaced. And what is this recent thread all about - http://www.ax84.com/bbs/dm2.php?id=197222 ? And as for fast, crunch, overdrive, I personally find an unhealthy level of interest in such topics as "clean headroom" and "Fender clean tone" on AX84. Clean is for cissies!

EBE · Post by **EBE** » Thu 11/03/05 1:15 pm

zaphod_phil wrote:
asheman_51 wrote: Go tour AX84 site(which is good technically) and see how much playin/music you encounter. It's all about fast crunch/grind overdrive... dude!
As AX84 is an *amp building* site, not a guitar technique site, your comment is very misplaced. And what is this recent thread all about - http://www.ax84.com/bbs/dm2.php?id=197222 ? And as for fast, crunch, overdrive, I personally find an unhealthy level of interest in such topics as "clean headroom" and "Fender clean tone". Clean is for cissies!

It's the ying to the yang. Got to have that fender clean AND the Marshall Crunch. Mr. OverProcessed himself EJ uses 2 fenders and 2 marshall on stage. Wonderful....

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Thu 11/03/05 2:51 pm

Yeah, and he's a cissie too!

Kind of unusual for a Texan....

EBE · Post by **EBE** » Thu 11/03/05 3:18 pm

zaphod_phil wrote:Yeah, and he's a cissie too! Kind of unusual for a Texan....

etu brutus.... I still refuse to believe it. Next you will say Doug Pinnick is a cissie. Kingsx was based in TX for a while. I see a theme developing.

Post by **rjgtr** » Thu 11/03/05 3:53 pm

Clean is for cissies, because to play clean you actually have to care about such unimportant things as dynamics, tone and technique. Buzzy is fun, but it sure covers a multitude of shortcomings...

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Thu 11/03/05 4:01 pm

Techniques and dynamics still count. You can't say that Page, Blackmore or Iomi all lack technique and dynamics (none of who are from Texas... hmmm...) despite the fact that they use lots of distortion. And distortion *is* tone!!!

I wanna rock!!!

Maybe time to cut down on the coffee....

Edit: Billy Gibbons is from Texas and uses distortion too. There's hope for the lone star state!

Buschman · Post by **Buschman** » Wed 11/09/05 10:23 am

I've used this method with a tweed Bassman & outboard Fender reverb tank & IT IS the way to go. You even get tone control over you reverb this way. Also works with a 4 input Marshall. Digital delays are okay but they don't give the feel that a good spring reverb gives.

Post by **rjgtr** » Wed 11/09/05 10:42 am

I wouldn't say any of the 70s guitarists using amp distortion are as distorted as today's Messy Burgler slingers are! You can still actually tell what kind of guitar they are using.

Even Warren Haynes only sets his Soldano on around 3, so you get the compression but with some clarity.

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18W with reverb again...