2x12 cab dimensions? And what speakers?

[GibsonGM]

Hi guys,

I went from noob to building the 18W TMB, and you all got me thru it...took it for its 1st test drive with the band the other night.....WOW!!! Now THAT is the tone I was looking for with my Les Paul!! Had it hooked up to my friend's Pe@vey 4x12 cab with just an Orange Squeezer to boost for solos. 4x12 was a little big for my taste, and it was slightly dark-sounding (and don't want to haul one around). So I'm looking into home-brewing a 2x12.
Questions:

1) what dimensions should I use? I've seen posts that give those 'golden ratios' - would anything based on that essentially work? I am thinking of pine (inexpensive here, baltic birch is like $150...) with a plywood baffle and OSB back....will try semi-open and closed back arrangements. Don't know about speaker placement other than DON'T center them up and down, how about left to right? What if I want to tilt the baffle in a few inches to angle the spkrs up at myself a bit - does that change things??

2) I've read a lot of posts on a variety of speakers for the 18W (Celestion G12H, etc)...my band is diverse and plays anything from new country, tom-pettyish stuff, Heart, up through Bon Jovi and Alice in Chains! Not really sure what speakers would give a good sound through all of those various sounds. Think late 70's, early 80's, and boosted. It's loud right now, so will have to use the RS in wall attenuator box for many gigs....

SO if anyone wants to chime in w/some opinions on my next big step, I'd really appreciate it!
Thanks in advance, this place rocks!!

Mike

[mcrracer]

I use this guy's designs for my bass, PA, subwoofer and now my 2-12 and 2-10 guitar cabs
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/XFCabs.html

I am not affiliated in any way with him or his company. Just a very satisfied customer. Load it with whatever speakers you like and can afford.

[zaphod_phil]

Here's a well-proven design from the UK - www.award-session.com/pdfs/AS212A_Plans.pdf You may want to convert the metric dimensions to inches, if that's what you're more used to.

A lot of folks like to use a pair of different speakers in their 2X12, such as a Celestion G12H-30/Vintage 30 combination or Avatar's Hellatone H30 and H60, which are exactly the same speakers, but pre-broken-in and relabeled. You could also try Eminence's versions of those two speakers, The Wizard and the Governor. Mixed speaker cabs like this should sound good for a wide range of musical styles.

BTW theres also a 1X12 and 2X10 version of Award Session's cabs, known respectively as the AS112A and the AS210A. You can substitute these names into the same URL to get the other plans.

[GibsonGM]

Thanks, guys. I am leaning towards the AS212A, looks pretty straight-forward. Except for those darned mm, lol....easy enough to convert!
Thanks also for the speaker suggestions, I'll start looking into them....

[RocksOff]

I'm using the WGS Reaper (G12H) and WGS Veteran 30 (V30 without the nasty upper mid spike) in a 2x12 cab made by Anthony at StageCraftGear.com . Excellent sounding and has had rave reviews from everyone who has heard/played through it.

[WaZaK]

I like the idea of crossfire for 2x12's. (see the Bill FitzMaurice link)
It seems to make a lot of (gut feeling) sense.
But does it make (real) sense?
Can anyone advise us how it sounds in reality?
It would take a lot of effort to produce the box (getting the angles right) from scratch.
(Or spend silly money on plans).
It would need to be worth it!

[zaphod_phil]

A 2 X 12 with the speakers mounted vertically above and below each other will spread the sound more in the horizontal plane, compared with a 2X12 where the speakers are side by side. Obviously you can stand a horizontal 2 X 12 on its side, if you want more spread at gigs. But this suggests to me that you don't really need XF cabs....

[WaZaK]

I thought you might say that ZP! (Lol)
I have just had a play: injecting a tone into an amp and miking several cabinets of different formats (in turn) to a V/U meter at various peripheral locations.
The more I think about it, the more I think Charlie was right with the old Dominator ........
But I still think the best / easiest (2x12) compromise is an angled front with the two speakers mounted diagonally - as pic.

[the_stoot64]

That (quarter) stack looks really cool, Wazak. Looks like you chopped the top off a quaddie

[GibsonGM]

Hey, that XF cabinet LOOKS a lot like what I have in mind! I would LOVE to actually hear what I'm playing, lol. I'm wondering if I can freeball the thing. Any clue as to what might go on if you didn't angle the speakers inwards, but had the baffle on an angled plane to point upwards a bit? Maybe a hybrid between that design and the AS212 plan...anybody have any plans for a slant-back 2x12 cab? Not looking for total audiophile quality here, just some decent tone that is versatile (Aerosmith to Peal Jam......).

Now, on his forum, they're saying NOT to mix different speakers...there must be as much Mojo around speakers & cabs as around axes, LOL!
Currently, a lot of people seem to be into the Hellatone 30 and 60.
So even if combing occurs, and the waves get all screwed up, people must like the sound.

[tkdrew]

Here's a pic of my vertical 2x12. I built it similar to some Mesa's that I owned a few years ago. It is divided internally so each speaker is in its own enclosure. This one sounds great, but its large and weighs a ton. If I was playing out I would use my other cab that is built similar to the THD horizontal cab, It sounds nearly as good as the vertical, but is smaller and is much lighter to carry around.

[GibsonGM]

Nice looking rig, man.
Like me, you haven't done the piping yet So little time....

Do you have any drawings, etc, for the cab? I'm not sure how to 'get the angle right' sound-wise. Or do you just start with a known design and wing it by extending the bottom and tilting the baffle? I'd want to build about 1/2 what you've got there (2x12, probably like 20-24" high)...

[GibsonGM]

This is what I came up with, I'd appreciate it if anyone with cab design experience could take a look?

Just extended the AS212A plan at the bottom, added a slope of 8 degrees to the baffle...think it would work? I'll fancy it up by extending the sides, top and bottom by about an inch for a decorative lip.

All suggestions welcome (and appreciated!) lol.

[CurtissRobin]

That's a fairly big slope by my reckoning. No reason it can't work, though. If I was just exploring ideas I think I'd build an adjustable stand and try tilting a cab in different positions. Back in the Blackface day Fender was well known for its tilt-back legs. Everybody had 'em but nearly nobody used 'em for playing, only for photos. Before that in the Tweed era 1" of slope (9-5/8"D at the bottom and 8-5/8"D at the top) was the usual.

In performance I rarely see cabs tilted unless they're being used (at least in part) as monitors. Maybe it says it doesn't matter or maybe it just doesn't matter enough to bother with. I really believe that if it was all that important there'd be a lot fewer rectangular boxes and flat baffles than there are.

All that being said, I'm in no position to discourage your trying something. Hail's bells, it may turn out to work great! Boominess is not likely to be any worry with the kind of slope you're talking.

Sorry I'm not more enlightening or encouraging about this.
KennyO

[WaZaK]

That design is very similar to mine GibsonGM.
On mine, the top is 10" and the bottom 15" - meaning the angle is steeper than your 8 degrees.
Here is a side view I just did for you.
(Note the permanent casters - with tons of rear stability overhang. It survived some pretty rocky stages!)

[katopan]

I built my 1x10" mostly open backed cab with about 15 degrees angle on the baffle, but kept the front square so I could use standard metal corners. I think it makes a difference to being able to hear myself on stage, but not much on what goes out to the crowd. Picked that angle purely by compromising what would get the speaker facing my ears if I was a few meters away without making it look ridiculous or take up too much space. Used the same on a 1x10" combo I made for a friend and once again it seems to make a bit of difference.

[GibsonGM]

Good feedback, guys, I appreciate it!

Curtiss - right now, I put a piece of 2x4 under the front edge of my H*t R*d D*luxe; I guess I'm going deaf with age, I can never hear the highs I'm sending out to the crowd, and the venues I play tend to be a little tight on stage (5-piece band). I'm never more than 7 feet or so from the amp. I like how the 'normal' cabs look, but kind of have to have my rig pointed up at me a little since I"m not miked. The risk is probably that if I am TOO much pointed up, all I'll hear is myself (although, being a guitarist, isn't that the point?? lol).

WaZak, thanks for the pic, that is what I was looking for. Holy crap, that thing is built to withstand a plane crash, huh? Nice job. Think I'll experiment with tilt-angles, come up with something manually that will do the job. Might only need a few degrees, so like Katopan could use normal corners.

[WesKuhnley]

I'm using the WGS Reaper (G12H) and WGS Veteran 30 (V30 without the nasty upper mid spike) in a 2x12 cab made by Anthony at StageCraftGear.com . Excellent sounding and has had rave reviews from everyone who has heard/played through it.

Actually, the regular "Reaper" and "Reaper HP" use 75 Hz cones, so they're not strictly G12H "clones". The new "Reaper 55Hz" (which is a fantastic driver [I'm using them in my commercial offerings] by the way) is more closely related to a G12H style speaker than it's brothers due to the 55Hz resonant cone.

I can't recommend WGS highly enough.

[ReverendD]

+1 on the Wizard too, although I haven't tried mixing the red coat speakers, I've used the eminence wizard in a tmb combo built into a old transtube peavey combo and it ROCKS. They're real sensitive and VERY loud. The red coat line of british voiced speakers Eminence makes really is a lot of bang for the buck.

Regards,

Rev. D.

[zaphod_phil]

Actually, the regular "Reaper" and "Reaper HP" use 75 Hz cones, so they're not strictly G12H "clones". The new "Reaper 55Hz" (which is a fantastic driver [I'm using them in my commercial offerings] by the way) is more closely related to a G12H style speaker than it's brothers due to the 55Hz resonant cone.

I think that depends which G12H version we're talking about. Celestion used to make the G12H-30s either with the 55Hz bass cone or the 75Hz lead cone. Currently the Classic series G12H-30 features the 75Hz cone, while the Heritage series G12H-30 has the 55Hz cone. I think I actually prefer the 75Hz version, personally. But I know the 55Hz cone also has its admirers.

right now, I put a piece of 2x4 under the front edge of my H*t R*d D*luxe; I guess I'm going deaf with age, I can never hear the highs I'm sending out to the crowd, and the venues I play tend to be a little tight on stage (5-piece band).

I've seen a kind of combo amp stand somewhere on the net that is partly a ducted cab. It both tilts the amp back, and also captures the sound from the rear of the amp in a kind of duct, and brings it out to the front underneath the amp. So you hear the sound from both the front and the back of the amp. Supposedly the Stones use these. I've often thought it looked like a pretty cool invention.