Celestion Alnico Blue

compo49 · Post by **compo49** » Tue 06/09/09 1:17 pm

Newbie quesion:
I am just about to build an Ampmaker PP-18 lite and just considering what speaker to use. I really like the Celestion Alnico Blue that I use in my 5 watt combo, but I am a bit apprehensive about using a single one on the 18 - 20 watt amp as they are rated at 15w RMS, they cost an arm and a leg and I really don't wan't to cook it! Two would be fine I guess but is just too cost prohibitive.
Would a 16 Ohm version load the amp to reduce the power output at all? I realise that this is a rather subjective question but drawing on some of your experience would a single Celestion Greenback or perhaps a Vintage 30 prove to be a decent alternative to the Blue?
Compo49

what_wires · Post by **what_wires** » Tue 06/09/09 1:57 pm

FWIW I built an 18W trem combo that gets used at moderate volumes and it has a Blue Dog 15W speaker in it. There haven't been any problems in over 2 years of use.

dgriff · Post by **dgriff** » Tue 06/09/09 2:11 pm

Hi, there was a similar thread running here recently(titled something about actual output of an 18w, 'cos the original poster didnt want to fry his speaker), and i think(without checking back) that the conclusion was that the blue "should" be ok. I personally like my V30, although my cab is a 2x12 with V30 and a G12classic 80 which were what I had lying around at the time. I 'v not tried a blue, but I would certainly get a few more opinions before taking the risk.
Griff

dgriff · Post by **dgriff** » Tue 06/09/09 2:24 pm

The thread was http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... ic&t=21516 . "Maximum output wattage of 1974x"

Wayne_Alexander · Post by **Wayne_Alexander** » Tue 06/09/09 5:23 pm

A single Celestion Blue can easily hande the output of any two EL84 amp. They very rarely blow.

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Wed 06/10/09 7:30 am

Alnico is a metal and therefore conducts. Alnico speakers apparently counteract the current that's driving them by generating a "back EMF" voltage that opposes the driving voltage (in common with other speakers), and also by partially demagnetising on larger current transients. This is what causes the compression effect of Alnico speakers, and also helps protect them against damage when driven at or beyond the limits of their power ratings.

Having said that I'm personally, not too keen on Celestion Alnicos (or their clones) in EL84 amps. EL84s are naturally somewhat bright sounding, and the same applies with the Celestion Alnicos. I ran the one in my current avatar (the Marshall OEM silver-painted version) in one 18W for a while and ended up taking it out, as I felt the highs became too emphasized. Most people aren't that keen on single V30s with 18W amps either, although they're quite popular when combined in a 2X12 with another darker speaker. My personal favorite speaker for an 18W is the Classic Celestion G12H-30. The two seem to complement each other perfectly, and together they give a nice BIG sound.

Celestion Greenbacks are also nice speakers to use in an 18W. Like the G12H-30s they need a lot of breaking in.

njkmonty · Post by **njkmonty** » Wed 10/07/09 6:26 am

im a fellow "novice" who recalls asking this same question months back and thanks to zp i ended up buying a blue and g12h30 from gabi really cheap.

fantastic combination, very impressed with the g12h30 actuallY ! i went with it probably because zp has never let me down with his advice! one thing i realised (being a first time builder) is i was originally caught up with fancy resister and caps, but these guys here where suggesting getting good output trannys and great speakers, well they r right. i think its worth waiting a bit to get good speakers than being in a rush and put average ones in to save a few bucks!

my opinion anyway.

1 speaker g1230h
2 speakers (on abudget) 2 x g12h30
2 speakers deluxe blue and g12h30

timbo_93631 · Post by **timbo_93631** » Wed 10/07/09 7:11 am

I did a lot of review reading and played as many speakers as possible, eventually chose a W***r 12A125 AlNiCo rated at 30 watts with light dope.
I know this will probably offend some purists as it is a jensen inspired speaker, but I play a strat and that early extra breakup is appreciated. I have a W***r 1225C British speaker with Pre-rola treatment that I scored off eBay to compare, after breaking it in, it is way too bright and has too much clean headroom for a strat, but sounds very nice with my buddy's Les Paul. When I sell the new build I will probably keep the 12A125 for my next build and ship the amp with the 1225 Ceramic.

cGil · Post by **cGil** » Wed 10/07/09 11:53 am

I hate to throw a curve ball into this discussion, but I'm really beginning to wonder if I got myself a bum Alnico Blue. Compared to my Heritage G12M, the Blue is smoother up top with the 18watt, but overall it sounds a bit like I've got a blanket over the cab. This becomes especially evident when I've got 'em side by side running in parallel off my 18watt, which is why I bought a G12H to pair with the G12M in that amp. The Blue sounds okay alone with the 18watt, but it really shines with 6V6 and 6AQ5 amps. Anybody else notice this, or is it just my particular speaker being extra persnickety about what it's fed?

Gil...

AlunAmpUk · Post by **AlunAmpUk** » Wed 10/07/09 1:46 pm

FWIW, I have also built an Ampmaker PP-18 and I use it with either a 1X12 with a Greenback or a 2X12 with G12H30's - i am very happy with both set ups.

overlock · Post by **overlock** » Wed 10/07/09 2:02 pm

Gil, just out of curiosity, does your blue have a H1777 cone? Some of the recent ones, especially from the Chinese factory, have different cones and many people think they lack that bright sound you expect from the blue.

cGil · Post by **cGil** » Wed 10/07/09 2:18 pm

Don't know what the H1777 cone would look like. The back of the bell sez only
Celestion loudspeakers G12 Alnico Blue, Celestion International, Ipswich, England. Nothing more. No codes inked on the cone as far as I can tell.

Bought it over a year ago from AES, but don't know how long it might've been sitting on their shelves.

Gil...

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Wed 10/07/09 4:18 pm

overlock wrote: Some of the recent ones, especially from the Chinese factory, have different cones and many people think they lack that bright sound you expect from the blue.

Hmmm, I might prefer one of those newer Chinese-made Alnicos then. Their "Made in England" current production ones have been way too ice-picky for me.

overlock · Post by **overlock** » Wed 10/07/09 5:06 pm

My understanding is that the current English production blues have the H1777. I think I read somewhere that the H1777 cone was used for greenbacks too. Or did I just dream that when the nurse put the needle in my arm?

The code would be inked on the cone. I've only seen the (Chinese) Vox-badged ones in an AC30 CC2X that I bought recently. One cone has some numbers printed on it, and I can't see any markings on the other. The amp sounds brilliant with a bit of top boost mixed in, so I have no complaints whatever they are.

cGil · Post by **cGil** » Wed 10/07/09 6:25 pm

Found the ink stamp(s) on the cone(s).

My Alnico Blue has a cone marked 53H1777.

My Heritage G12M has a cone marked 83-11914

And lastly, my brand spankin' new Heritage G12H-30 has a cone marked 410 281

I wasn't aware Celestion was even making a version of the Alnico Blue in China. Celestion's web page doesn't say where they're made as far as I can tell, but they don't list two versions of the Alnico series the way they do with the Classic series (Chinese made) and Heritage series (Made in England).

http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/

FWIW, AES/tubesandmore.com still has the Blue advertised as "Made in England". I sure hope they're right, considering the $279 they're still charging for it.

Gil...

leslie · Post by **leslie** » Thu 10/08/09 1:52 pm

I don't have information is Celestion trying to 'recapture' pulsonic cone 003 or is working with cones 1777 made by Kurt-Mueller, or just simply 'reissuing' both cone numbers lol
But there is some information on old cones/codes here http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?t=69208
and http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... 46&page=15
On the other hand I like their Alnico gold 12 with my 18 very much

krx · Post by **krx** » Thu 10/08/09 2:22 pm

cGil wrote: I wasn't aware Celestion was even making a version of the Alnico Blue in China.

The Blues that come in the new Chinese made Voxes are made in China with different cones. The Blues you buy off the shelf are still made in England with the same specs (as far as I know) they've been using since they re-issued it.

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Thu 10/08/09 4:46 pm

leslie wrote:On the other hand I like their Alnico gold 12 with my 18 very much

You must be a wealthy man. Those must cost quite a lot of money in Croatia. Or maybe you used to be wealthy before buying the Alnico Gold(s).

krx wrote:The Blues that come in the new Chinese made Voxes are made in China with different cones.

So I wonder if someone at Vox figured out that their amps would sound better with less bright speakers.

krx · Post by **krx** » Thu 10/08/09 11:27 pm

Don't know how much you can really tell from a YouTube video, but here's a comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAQfmJ7dmRk

leslie · Post by **leslie** » Thu 10/08/09 11:52 pm

zaphod_phil wrote: You must be a wealthy man. Those must cost quite a lot of money in Croatia. Or maybe you used to be wealthy before buying the Alnico Gold(s).

The old saying goes...wealth isn't in a dollar bill but in gold!

I tried friends gold in my amp, ha!
But I don't see what is wrong with buying one good alnico speaker if someone likes the sound, many of guitarists regularly throws money on pickups or pedals anyway.

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