Absolute best tubes for LiteIIB

[blackjack]

Title says it all! Preferably NOS tubes but if there are any good production tubes list em here! I heard that nice tubes really make a big difference in your sound!

So..

Best 12ax7:

Best El84:

Best EZ81:

I'm kind of a noob but I trust you guys with this kind of stuff

Thanks

[Bacchus]

I don't know about you Blackjack, but I really love my Tesla's EL84 (not JJ's!) in my TMB!
Close second would be the Telams...

[krx]

All a matter of taste and dependent on your other gear (guitar, pickups, cable, speakers, what caps you used in your amp, what kind of wire is in your amp, etc.). I find JJs to be a good choice in most situations. Good price, good sound, good reliability. Other tubes sound different -- better or worse is subjective. The only way to find out is to try some. Generally I find that NOS is not worth the (ridiculous) money these days except in a few cases.

[blackjack]

Very helpful advice

I was looking at getting 2 JJ el84s for the poweramp. an electro harmonix Ez81 and a JJ 12ax7 and a tungsol 12ax7

All of those tubes are production tubes.

I guess I just really wanted to find out if the NOS tubes were really worth getting.

Thanks

[timbo_93631]

I really like the Mullard EL-84 reissues. Early breakup, low microphonics. The 12ax7's they have reissued are crap though. I ordered a set off eB@y and they were super microphonic, waiting to get my replacement set to see if they are better.

[blackjack]

I took a look at the Mullard website.... 350 bucks!!! OUCH. that almost costs half as much as the amp LOL. Maybe if theres something cheaper though. Haha. How good are the tubes I mentioned in my last post?


Thanks

[krx]

I took a look at the Mullard website.... 350 bucks!!! OUCH. that almost costs half as much as the amp LOL. Maybe if theres something cheaper though. Haha. How good are the tubes I mentioned in my last post?


Thanks

Those are all good choices. The JJ and Tung Sol 12AX7s are pretty different from each other but both nice. Try swapping them between the two positions and you should notice a difference.

The Mullard re-issues should only be about $30/pair, by the way. Haven't tried them yet but have heard positive reports.

[timbo_93631]

That must be a typo. I can't see paying $350 for a quad of matched NOS EL-84 Mullards that are hand picked by Jesus! My reissues were $35 for a factory matched pair with free shipping on eB@y. Like I said, they are great. I play a strat so the little bit of extra breakup early on is good. JJ EZ-81 is a great rectifier for the dough very reliabl. There aren't a lot of modern manufacturers producing them, but NOS prices are pretty low because it is not such a widely used tube as 12AX7's, 6L6's, 6V6's, EL-84's etc.

[zaphod_phil]

Generally I find that NOS is not worth the (ridiculous) money these days except in a few cases.

It's great that there are more and more good current production tubes out there. But if you want the very best in tone, you still need pretty much to go for NOS tubes. You will not find any current production 12AX7s or EL84s, for example, that sound as amazingly good as Mullard or Telefunken ones. However, stocks of those big name brands are running down, while audiphools are out there paying bigger and bigger bucks for them.

I can't see paying $350 for a quad of matched NOS EL-84 Mullards...

There's no way I'm going to pay those crazy prices either. So the trick is to shop around a bit. Go to ham fests. Lurk on eBay or other auction sites. Find old electronic stores closing down. Try lesser-known brand name NOS which can sound just as good, as well as near equivalents, such as EL83s or 6CM6s instead of EL84s. I've got some great NOS tubes including Mullard, Brimar and Tungsram in my stash, and I haven't paid a lot for them. And I never waste money on matched sets! In guitar amps non-matched power tubes will actually sound sweeter - as long as they're not miles apart of course. If you contact Terry Kilgore (aka Tube Tramp / Sgt Overdrive), he can get you some real cool NOS tube deals of lesser known brands, for not a lot more than you would pay for good quality current production tubes - http://mhuss.com/sgtoverdrive Talking to the Sarge is highly recommended and likely to be a real fun experience.

[timbo_93631]

I should have added that Ham Radio swap meets are a goldmine for tubes, my Dad is a ham and is always on the lookout for good NOS tubes at his get togethers, I always have a great time going with him. The oldtimers there usually have thousands of tubes. Now the really good stuff I stash away. Bought the reissue Mullards because I am going to sell the amp soon and I wanted something less generic sounding than JJ's when people check it out, without having to sell any of my stash.

[blackjack]

Ok so heres what I'm thinking about getting right now actually after reading that.

Tung-Sol 12ax7 gold plated in the preamp

Mullard reissue el84 in the poweramp

RFT EZ81 in the rectifier

Im pretty sure this is what I want. I just have one question... Why do unmatched tubes sound better?

Thanks

[zaphod_phil]

I really like the Mullard EL-84 reissues. Early breakup, low microphonics. The 12ax7's they have reissued are crap though. I ordered a set off eB@y and they were super microphonic, waiting to get my replacement set to see if they are better.

I've used several of New Sensors fake Mullard 12AX7s and not found any microphony problems with them. And they have great tone. There have however been a lot of quality problems with Groove Tubes' GT 12AX7Ms. I wonder if you didn't have the GT ones there....

Tung-Sol 12ax7 gold plated in the preamp
Mullard reissue el84 in the poweramp.

I really wouldn't recommend New Sensor's fake T-S 12AX7s in an 18W, as they are very bright sounding tubes, and the EL84 power stage already makes an 18W pretty bright. If you really don't want to try some inexpensive, but mouth-wateringly toneful NOS tubes, then I would recommend you go for NewSensor's fake Mullard 12AX7s instead. They have a much more balanced, yet very clear and sweet tone. But anyway, why aren't you shooting for NOS? If you're spending all that time and money on an amp, why can't you spend just a little more on tubes that will do it justice?

Why do unmatched tubes sound better?

The more closely matched they are the more perfectly they will cancel out the even-order harmonics in the power stage. And it's those even harmonics that give a tube amp its sweet warmth. For hi-fi it's naturally a completely different story - the opposite case in fact. And of course you don't want tubes that are so way out that you get hum or one of the pair red plating. So stick to tube pairs from the same manufacturer and approximate year of manufacture.

[timbo_93631]

I dunno what the deal was with the Mullard repro 12AX7's I got. Maybe they got beat up in shipping. I put them in and all of a sudden started getting crazy feedback with nothing plugged in, I checked the lead dress, but hadn't experienced any problems with the China 12ax7's Graydon included in my kit, or various NOS one, some sovetek's and, some 90's Groovetube's also sovetek I think. After moving a couple of wires it was better, but still there, and light taps on the tubes ith my trusty chopstick were picked up clearly at low volume. I popped back in Graydon's China 12ax7's and everything was kosher. So I sent them back to the place I ordered them from on eB@y for an exchange set. I think they will be here in the next few days. Will certianly give a full report at that time. I just thought it was funny that they are advertised as having low microphonics and the set I got were some of the most microphonic tubes I have ever heard.

[blackjack]

Zaphod Phil. What tubes do you use in your 18 watt amp?

Thanks

[blackjack]

What pre amp power amp and rectifier tubes do you guys use?

[timbo_93631]

I got my replacement set of Mullard 12 AX7's today. They are pretty gainy, I think that is the real problem trying to run them in an 18 watt tremolo build. My lead dress is really neat, have extensively chopsticked the wires for optimal positioning, but I still get a thud thud thud in the background with the tremolo engaged. Swapping V2 for a Groovetubes Sovetek, GDS kit sopplied China, or NOS GE, solves the problem. In fact it is best if I only use the Mullard 12AX7 for V3. I am gonna save them for my next build, a TMB. I think they will be great for that. All of this has left me wondering if I shouldn't try a 12AY7 or 12AT7 for V2. Any thoughts?

[krx]

All of this has left me wondering if I shouldn't try a 12AY7 or 12AT7 for V2. Any thoughts?

Bad idea (especially the 12AT7), in my opinion, but it won't hurt anything to try it, especially if you already have the tubes.

[zaphod_phil]

For the thumping check out Richie's tremelo mods. I also don't see how changing V2, the PI tube, would help with tremolo problems. Also putting a lower gain tube in the PI will reduce the amp's classic 18W overdrive. Some folks like that, but the amp will no longer be true to the Marshall 18W tone and vibe.

[timbo_93631]

The amp in question is a Richie's improved tremolo - somewhat. I decided I would rather build richie's circuit so I sold the GDS board that came with my kit and picked up a richie's trem double turret from Ken Watts at Watts Tube Audio. I built to the layout in the download section, but after playing it awhile I decided I'd like the top end of the tremolo level to be more agressive, and I'd like more speed at the top too.

... I built it with the improved tremolo circuit because I thought the trem speed on the 1974x I played at GC was too fast, on my build it seems too slow. I'd ideally like to be somewhere in the middle. Also the intensity of the tremolo effect seems really low too. It seems like I have to switch to the off position then turn it on with the intensity control turned down, then bring up the level to get it going. When it is at full intensity it seems like it is going full volume to half volume, not as drastic as the on-off-on-off effect should be...

If its too slow,and you have a .022 for C8.. try a .015. Also if you have a 2.7Meg resistor..try a 2.2Meg in its place.. this should speed it up a little.
even without changing the .022 for C8.. changing the 2.7M to a 2.2Meg.will speed the trm up just a little., or vice versa.. just change the cap to a .015

I made the changes on the trem,so when you rolled the intensity all the way down,the trem would stop.. to get it going the intensity has to be rolled up some.. Also try a few tubes for the trem..

After making these changes I only got half of what I was looking for. The intensity is better, but the speed control didn't really change. And then there is the thud thud thud. Like I said, using a different tube for V2 seems to clear it up. I am wondering if I should go back to the 2 Meg pot for the speed control as I have changed back to the stock C and R values. Sorry to hijack the thread.

[blackjack]

Not a problem Hope you have learned as much as I have on these forums!