Speaker advice for 4x12

[Ben32]

Hi all

My first post so please be nice

Just finished my first build, an 18w lite IIb with vvr. Very happy with it so far but i am now looking to upgrade my speakers. I currently play through a stock Marshall MG 4x12 which sounds nice, but i feel it could be 'better' and perhaps louder. I am going to use my existing cab and just replace the speakers and i need some advice on which combination of speakers to go for. My budget is around £400.

Combinations i'm considering are as follows:
1. 2x Celestion G12H30 and 2x G12M25
2. 4x G12H30
3. 4x G12M25
4. The detuned option - 2x Celestion Blue or Gold with the other two holes left open

I play in a five piece cover band playing mainly rock from the likes of AC/DC, GnR, ZZ top, etc etc. So i am looking for speakers to suit this genre that will also be loud enough to compete with our slightly deaf and very loud rhythm guitarist!

And one more thing - After christmas i will be starting my second build, a 36 watt Superlite, so the speakers will need to be suited to this also

Any advice, suggestions or recommendations much appreciated.......

[zaphod_phil]

What speakers do you currently have in it?

I think I might vote for the detuned option with a G12H-30 and a Celestion Gold. Both good, loud speakers. Greenbacks aren't quite as loud, and they can suffer from somewhat woofy low end.

Unfortunately your options are more limited in the UK than in North America, where there are a number of different Celestion equivalents available.

For the detuned cab, you may also like to try tarzanalog's divider trick - http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... ic&t=18400

FYI some more threads on detuned cabs:
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... c&p=178102
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... pic&t=3009
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... ic&t=11735
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... c&p=141191
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... ic&t=14785
http://www.18watt.com/modules.php?name= ... ic&t=14934

HTH

[malt]

Hi, you forgot

5. 2xG12H30 2xG12H20
6. Tayden http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/ta ... 77_79.html

You can also mod you cab and have the two speakers in the bottom sealed and two on top open.

[nyazzip]

although they sound great, a 4x12 cab is a bit of overkill for an 18 watt amp, or even a 50.
consider a 2x12, 2x10, or even a single 12, no...? how much volume are you expecting from 18 watts? 18 watts can't compete with a drum set, no matter what you plug it in to.

[leslie]

18 watts can't compete with a drum set, no matter what you plug it in to.

You must be kidding

[krx]

although they sound great, a 4x12 cab is a bit of overkill for an 18 watt amp, or even a 50.
consider a 2x12, 2x10, or even a single 12, no...? how much volume are you expecting from 18 watts? 18 watts can't compete with a drum set, no matter what you plug it in to.

I do agree that a 4x12 is overkill. But you're WAY off about the volume level.

[dgriff]

18 watt lite2b into one '70's G12H30, our LOUD drummer actually had the cheek to ask me to turn down . The 1x12 cab which I am using at the moment is like a cannon though.

[Ben32]

although they sound great, a 4x12 cab is a bit of overkill for an 18 watt amp, or even a 50.
consider a 2x12, 2x10, or even a single 12, no...? how much volume are you expecting from 18 watts? 18 watts can't compete with a drum set, no matter what you plug it in to.

Well, last nights gig certainly proved that wrong Tha 18 watt was maxed out but it was plenty loud enough without being miced. It could have done with a bit more 'umph' but this is why i plan building the 36w in the new year.

You are right about the 4x12 being overkill tho. It is way OTT and is a pain in the a** the store, transport and squeeze into some of the tight spaces we play in. However, i bought the cab years ago when i was in my teens thinking it would make me play better - needless to say this didn't work, but i'm now stuck with it so may as well make the most of it. This is why i'm thinking of going for the detuned option. Two speakers in the top two holes - One Celestion Gold and one Celestion G12H30 as ZP suggested.

[Ben32]

The speakers currently in it by the way are the Marshall/Celestion custom-designed speakers (30W each). Don't really know much more about them as ive never taken the back off to look and the only time i ever see the cab is at gigs when it's not the best time to be taking it to bits! These are the stock speakers that came with the cab so i'm guessing some quality replacements should be a big improvement in the sound?

[zaphod_phil]

The speakers currently in it by the way are the Marshall/Celestion custom-designed speakers (30W each).

"custom-designed" usually means they did their best to squeeze a bit more tone out of something cheap and cheerful. Some good speakers in the cab might just give you that extra 'umph' you're looking for, without needing the 36W.

[krx]

You are right about the 4x12 being overkill tho. It is way OTT and is a pain in the a** the store, transport and squeeze into some of the tight spaces we play in.

Why not sell it then?

[dgriff]

Evilbay does have its uses..... I suggest selling the 4x12 and check out the cabs that Chris makes to order thru http://www.ampmaker.com (which I have no affiliation with). And also keep an eye out for some good 70's g12h30's which can be had for reasonable money if you are lucky. I got a good pair for quite a bit less than a single re-issue, but I think that I was lucky that day.
Dave

[Ben32]

Ok I've seen a few 70's g12h30s for reasonable prices. Can anyone tell me which would work or sound best in the lite iib - 55hz, 75hz or 85hz?

And I have considered selling the 4x12 but I enjoy playing through it too much to let it go. I have my EVJ 1x12 for practicing and smaller gigs if it's needed.

Thanks for everyones help so far, much appreciated....

[zaphod_phil]

If you're talking about well used old G12H-30s then go for the 75Hz version. They will sound terrific. If you're talking about recently made ones then maybe aim for one 55Hz and one 75Hz, or else a 55Hz with a Celestion Gold - assuming you're still keen on trying the de-tuned option.

[Ben32]

If you're talking about well used old G12H-30s then go for the 75Hz version. They will sound terrific. If you're talking about recently made ones then maybe aim for one 55Hz and one 75Hz, or else a 55Hz with a Celestion Gold - assuming you're still keen on trying the de-tuned option.

Hi Phil, thanks and yes i was talking about the well used old ones. Just took dgriff's advice and bought a couple from ebay for less than the cost of a new one. Let's hope they arrive in good condition! I'll give these a try first before splashing out on a gold. Then, if i'm still not happy, i'll replace one with the Gold and put the spare one in my EVJ cab.

Job done, thanks all. I'll try post back with results as soon as i get them in and tested.

[dgriff]

Not often that people take my advice, which in this case was inspired by more experienced members of the forum. The great thing about this place is that you don't have to make expensive blind purchases and hope for the best. Somebody here has already tried and compared these different speakers.
At least we don't have to reinvent the wheel with every generation.
I hope that you get some good ones and they give you the same pleasure that mine give me.
Respect from YORKSHIRE
Dave

[Keith2112]

how much volume are you expecting from 18 watts?

Just slightly less than a 50 Watt amp, which is what the science tells us should it should be. Halving power results in about a 3 dB reduction in volume.

18 watts can't compete with a drum set, no matter what you plug it in to.

I will need to tell our sound tech that the volume that is produced by my 18 watt lite is only an illusion when I am told to turn down, at almost every gig. It is only 18 watts, you know, it can't possibly compete with a drummer, you need like, what, 100 watts for that right?

Unless you have actually played with a drummer with an 1974 style 18 watt or heard a band that uses one, such uninformed comments should not be made.

[dgriff]

The guys in my band couldn't believe that my 18watt wasn't 50watts .
It seems to me to be as loud as the "50 watt" solid state nasty thing which I used to struggle with, and Marshall actually put their name to(MG50DFX).
At least I can use the cabinet, chassis and knobs for another build/conversion. Or just evilbay it.

[Ben32]

I'd been using my Marshall DSL 50 for years before 2 weeks ago when it decided to die on me. I was never completely happy with the sound and quite often it was lost during solo's. I took the 18 watt to the next gig. It supprised everyone (including myself! ) at how well it could be heard over the rest of the band (5-piece) without being overpowering. I can't wait to give it a try with some decent speakers. The DSL is now in the attic and i am in no rush to fix it!

[zaphod_phil]

how much volume are you expecting from 18 watts? 18 watts can't compete with a drum set, no matter what you plug it in to.

I've been gigging with my 18 watter for 5+ years in a heavy rock outfit with a hard hitting drummer who plays Pearl Masters series drums-maple w/batter heads (LOUD.)I sometimes have sound guy ask me to turn down! I play through a Marshall 1922 2/12 Cab with a Hellatone 30 and a Eminence GB Legend...
Before I got my 2/12 loaded to my satisfaction, I played through a Marshall 1960 cab W 70 watt vintage 30s and it sounded good...
I've done a couple outdoor barbeques with no mikes on the cab and been asked to turn down! My Bass player plays an SVT cassic w/ 6/10 cab.. 18 watts is enough!

I just used my 18 watt lite IIb for the first time tonight at rehearsal. We play loud anyway but it cut through the keys and drums just fine. The bass player was solid clipping his 250 watt amp and I was fine with it. I normally use a 50 watt Dumble clone but this amp cuts through better, where the Dumble is fatter. I ran it almost wide open and cleaned up just using my guitar volume knob. the band remarked on how loud it was for its size. I use a 2x12 THD box with Hellatone 30s.

I tell you now, my 18 watter is loud. I am used to playing my Rivera Knucklehead 100 watt, but since I have completed my 18 watt, it is all I need. I eat the other guitarist for lunch volume wise and he has a 1969 Super Reverb! I only have the volume on 6 or 7 and it is a bit too loud. The bass player keeps telling me to turn down but I do not. I play loud ROCKING music and I just can't believe the volume and tone from my 18 watt amp. I had a DR Z Carmen Ghia once, it had nowhere near the volume or tone of my amp.

And there are plenty more examples....