G12H30

Colin_D · Post by **Colin_D** » Sat 12/05/09 3:32 pm

I have an Avatar 2x12 cab with a V30 and a G12H30 in it. It sounds really good in a room. However, I've noticed a raspiness from the G12H30 while close-miking it for recording. The V30 consistently delivers a much better tone for recording. I've experimented with miking up both speakers and mixing them together but I always return to the V30 by itself. The G12H just sounds too boomy when I record it. It's the 70th anniversary edition that avatar sell and installs in their cabs. http://avatarspeakers.com/
Is this the same G12H30 that ZP raves about? I'm starting to wonder if there's something wrong with mine as the harshness seems to be getting worse. I had assumed that the V30 would be harsh when recording because of what I've read on various recording forums but it seems to have a much more well-balanced and smoother tone. Any thoughts?

Colin_D

PepeJara · Post by **PepeJara** » Sat 12/05/09 3:50 pm

Perhaps yours is defective, or you equalize your amp for the V30 instead of the G12h, but my experience is that I love my G12h (I have them in my 2061cx cab and in my Matchlees spitfire) and I get tired very soon of the V30 tone (at first it does not sound bad, but after a few minutes I can´t stand it)

PD: in what amp do you run them?

I don´t like V30 in 18 watters at all

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Sat 12/05/09 5:07 pm

+1 to pepejara's comments. However, bear in mind that one man's "raspy" may be another man's "crisp".

Next, I gig my amps, and I don't record. So I'm only describing how the amp sounds in the room, not into a recording setup. I'm also using vintage G12H-30s, which were made in the '70s, so they will almost certainly sound somewhat different from the ones you've tried. I have a feeling that recently made Celestion speakers have excessive doping, which means they take a hellofa long time to break in properly. I'm starting to wonder if these days it may be better to buy Weber's equivalents and order them either with medium or "pre-Rola" doping. Or there's the more expensive Scumback versions.

krx · Post by **krx** » Sat 12/05/09 7:47 pm

zaphod_phil wrote:I have a feeling that recently made Celestion speakers have excessive doping, which means they take a hellofa long time to break in properly. I'm starting to wonder if these days it may be better to buy Weber's equivalents and order them either with medium or "pre-Rola" doping. Or there's the more expensive Scumback versions.

They definitely have too much dope. Weber's pre-Rola thing actually is even MORE dope than that but then they spray the cone with fabric softener and variac it to break it in. The Mojo and Warehouse speakers actually have a pretty reasonable amount of dope and are my first choice.

As far as recording goes, have you tried different mics and positions?

guitarmike2107 · Post by **guitarmike2107** » Sun 12/06/09 8:00 am

I have a H12h30 anniversary that took a long .. long time to break in and now sounds really sweat. But it does sound different to the Heritage model which I also have, so chances are ZP speaker will agian sound different.

Not everybody hates the V30 with these amps, it more about taste and what you are after...

Mike

leslie · Post by **leslie** » Sun 12/06/09 9:16 am

This is clip of G12H30 and my trusty Goodmans audiom 12PG (from 70's WEM cabinet ) I posted log time ago.They are both very good partners with 18W

leslie wrote: Ok here is speaker test of G12H30 and ''Badmans'' respectively.
for your amusement http://www.box.net/shared/v92qhdl8x7

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Sun 12/06/09 9:37 am

guitarmike2107 wrote:I have a H12h30 anniversary that took a long .. long time to break in and now sounds really sweat.

I believe that over long break-in time is due to the excessively heavy doping. Of course, with too little doping you run the risk of cone cry.

guitarmike2107 wrote:But it does sound different to the Heritage model which I also have...

How do those two versions sound to you, relative to each other? I'm curious about the difference the Heritage's 55Hz bass cone makes vs the Anniversary's 75Hz lead cone.

Weber also has a 55Hz cone model, 1230-55.

guitarmike2107 wrote:Not everybody hates the V30 with these amps...

True - but they're fairly few and far between. Like Paul Blandford, I've found that Mezza's special Made in England V30s are somewhat sweeter than the regular kind, but I still don't think they'd be my first choice for an 18W. JMOO, YMMV, etc...

guitarmike2107 · Post by **guitarmike2107** » Sun 12/06/09 1:04 pm

They just sound different, its not that one is better or worse, I would say the heritage was smoother/more balance out of the box, the anniversary was much more "un-balanced" and shouty out of the box, but broken in and matched with the right amp it is sweet.

And I think that is they key, it needs to be matched to the right amp.. I have g12m both g12h's and v30 which I try with all my builds.. some work some just dont.. cost allot to have all those speakers about though.

BTW both G12H do sound different to the G12M too

cl1093 · Post by **cl1093** » Sun 12/06/09 4:25 pm

I just wanted to add that I have a new W*bber G12H with light doping and it sounds great with my liteIIb! It actually replaced a V30 in a m*zza 1x12 open back cab. the v30 went into my mg412 cab that I picked up on the cheap...it's a handy place to store speakers when I want to swap them.

krx · Post by **krx** » Sun 12/06/09 6:53 pm

guitarmike2107 wrote:They just sound different, its not that one is better or worse, I would say the heritage was smoother/more balance out of the box, the anniversary was much more "un-balanced" and shouty out of the box, but broken in and matched with the right amp it is sweet.

I really like the 55 Hz cone speakers. They have a nice thick sound. BUT they're missing the top-end presence that I need. With an overly bright amp or a sissy guitar (i.e. a strat), they'd probably sound very nice on their own, but otherwise I would mix them with a brighter speaker. I also get the feeling the 55s would sound better un-doped.

leslie · Post by **leslie** » Mon 12/07/09 6:27 am

krx wrote:
I really like the 55 Hz cone speakers. They have a nice thick sound. BUT they're missing the top-end presence that I need. With an overly bright amp or a sissy guitar (i.e. a strat), they'd probably sound very nice on their own, but otherwise I would mix them with a brighter speaker. I also get the feeling the 55s would sound better un-doped.

Now that's just immature

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSNmJfsZbEY

Post by **rjgtr** » Mon 12/07/09 9:45 am

krx wrote:... or a sissy guitar (i.e. a strat),

It's only a sissy guitar when played by a sissy...

As far as the 55hz cone thing. Unless you're going into dropped tuning a guitar won't get into the lower range of the speaker. Although the 55hz cone can sound fuller, I think it's because the highs are de-emphasized.

For more low end fullness from the 75hz cone G12H-30 you can just put it in a deeper cabinet. I find a 9 inch deep cabinet sounds a lot thinner than a 12 inch deep cabinet. You can also modify the back of a cabinet so that it goes up to the middle or top of the magnet. This will give it more thump. The only thing to be carefull about is that the tubes have enough airflow to stay cool.

I find the G12H-30, when broken in, is a great all around speaker with an 18watt. That and the G12M-25 are my favorites in an 18watt.

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Mon 12/07/09 11:53 am

rjgtr wrote: It's only a sissy guitar when played by a sissy...

True - Blackmore's Strat playing can hardly be said to sound sissy.

Apart from that I'm not a huge fan of Strats either. I happen to own a "Double Fat Strat", which is the model that has dual H/Bs and no S/Cs. Now that one is no sissy instrument. It will even take on LPs.

rjgtr wrote:As far as the 55hz cone thing. Unless you're going into dropped tuning a guitar won't get into the lower range of the speaker. Although the 55hz cone can sound fuller, I think it's because the highs are de-emphasized.

There's one theory that you get a smoother overall response from the 55Hz version because its resonant frequency is well below a guitar's bottom E string. The 75Hz version actually resonates at 85Hz according to the specs, which appears somewhat too close for comfort. Maybe it doesn't matter. I'm just not quite sure at the moment....

krx · Post by **krx** » Mon 12/07/09 12:09 pm

zaphod_phil wrote:
rjgtr wrote: It's only a sissy guitar when played by a sissy...
True - Blackmore's Strat playing can hardly be said to sound sissy.

rjgtr wrote:As far as the 55hz cone thing. Unless you're going into dropped tuning a guitar won't get into the lower range of the speaker. Although the 55hz cone can sound fuller, I think it's because the highs are de-emphasized.
There's one theory that you get a smoother overall response from the 55Hz version because its resonant frequency is well below a guitar's bottom E string. The 75Hz version actually resonates at 85Hz according to the specs, which appears somewhat too close for comfort. Maybe it doesn't matter. I'm just not quite sure at the moment....

My ears tell me the response curves are pretty different between the two versions. The mids are definitely different. The highs are very different. The lows are actually where there's the least difference but that was open-backed. Sealed they would have to have different responses if all else was equal except the resonance.

And, hey, I just can't stand the sound of strats. They're ugly, too.

I'll give anyone who started playing one pre-1970 a pass though.

paulschnettler · Post by **paulschnettler** » Mon 12/07/09 1:52 pm

zaphod_phil wrote:
rjgtr wrote: It's only a sissy guitar when played by a sissy...
True - Blackmore's Strat playing can hardly be said to sound sissy. Apart from that I'm not a huge fan of Strats either. I happen to own a "Double Fat Strat", which is the model that has dual H/Bs and no S/Cs. Now that one is no sissy instrument. It will even take on LPs.

+1 on the double fat Strat.
I happen to have a 78 tele deluxe, (the oddball of the fender family) that has the ash body and dual H/B's with maple fretboard. Talk about BAL#'S!

Post by **rjgtr** » Mon 12/07/09 5:42 pm

Well since we're confessing, I have two strats - an EC model and a Japanese 50's model that is converted to EC specs. I like the normal strat sound, but not hum, but I also like the mid boost control for leads. There's been a lot great non-sissy players using strats, Jeff Beck and EC among them.

But I only use those guitars when I really need a strat sound. Normally it is a PRS McCarty or PRS SC-245 these days. I also own a nice '88 '59 RI LP and an 80's '61 RI SG, but I only get to use those more sparingly.

I'm in to whatever works for the gig.

krx · Post by **krx** » Mon 12/07/09 6:09 pm

Relax guys, I wasn't calling strat players, sissies, just the guitars! To my ears, they sound thin and brittle and have no balls. Plus they just look goofy. You know, for how overwhelmingly popular the strat is, I have very few records in my collection that were recorded using them. Anyways, I'm getting off topic here. My point was that the 55 Hz speakers can make a thin, weak guitar (i.e. a strat), sound respectable (e.g. Hendrix).

Post by **CurtissRobin** » Mon 12/07/09 6:59 pm

krx wrote:Relax guys, I wasn't calling strat players, sissies, just the guitars!

Keep digging.

KennyO

krx · Post by **krx** » Mon 12/07/09 7:36 pm

CurtissRobin wrote:
krx wrote:Relax guys, I wasn't calling strat players, sissies, just the guitars!
Keep digging.

KennyO

Brewmaster · Post by **Brewmaster** » Mon 12/07/09 8:22 pm

zaphod_phil wrote: There's one theory that you get a smoother overall response from the 55Hz version because its resonant frequency is well below a guitar's bottom E string. The 75Hz version actually resonates at 85Hz according to the specs, which appears somewhat too close for comfort. Maybe it doesn't matter. I'm just not quite sure at the moment....

I have heard many an audiophile say the sound you don't hear (headroom or in this case bottom room

) effects the sound you do hear. The inaudible frequencies make the audilble frequencies sound fuller and richer.
After 40 + years of listening and playing live music my hearing isn't the best anymore so what do I know!

SRV was a Strat palyer, so was Mark Knopler. OK OK , Knopler could be a bit plingy sounding but SRV!!! I should be so wimpy if only in my dreams.

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