Speaker Breakup

[axehack]

I am just figuring out that I dont like speaker breakup. However I am curious. Do speakers that are meant to breakup do so because of volume or because the ot is maxed out and the effect that has on the speaker? Sorry if this is a silly question.

[zaphod_phil]

OT saturation and speaker breakup are two different things. So it might help to work out which of the two it is that you actually don't much like. The OT used in the original Marshall 18W and better quality clones (excluding the 1974X RI) is quite generously spec'ed for the job and not particularly prone to saturation. So what you hear with one of those amps is speaker breakup. However, as a contrasting example, the OT used in a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe is actually under spec and you will hear quite a bit of transformer saturation in its sound.

HTH

[axehack]

My only reference are the 3 amps I have built from hammond organ trannies. All of them are 18 watt variants. i find the cleans and light overdrive on these amps great but when they are dimed I dont like the distortion flavour. i guess i really dont know whether it is the speaker or the ot.

[zaphod_phil]

In that case it's most likely to be the OTs IMO. Those Hammond organ trannies are puny little things, and nothing much like a real 18W clone OT. An 18W power stage gets driven very hard, and with the wrong OT, you can get harsher harmonics being emphasized. Also a smaller OT will make the sound more compressed. I always say that the OT is the foundation of an amp's tone. At this stage, if you've already built three amps, I think it's time you tried a good 18W clone OT from Brownnote, GDS, MM, Mojo or Trinity.

[PaulBlandford]

My only reference are the 3 amps I have built from hammond organ trannies. All of them are 18 watt variants. i find the cleans and light overdrive on these amps great but when they are dimed I dont like the distortion flavour. i guess i really dont know whether it is the speaker or the ot.

Do you have access to some bigger speakers? Plugging into some higher wattage speakers will help you identify whether you're disliking speaker breakup or OT mush. I have a Deluxe OT in one of my builds, for my money it works better with the 6V6 tubes in that amp.

-Paul

[axehack]

Those Hammond organ trannies are puny little things, and nothing much like a real 18W clone OT.

So if I ran ecl86's would that help? These amps are a bit loud for my situation.

[axehack]

Do you have access to some bigger speakers?

The speakers I was playing through were 10" wgs speakers. I have tried it through an eminence wizard but I play through a tele and I couldnt get passed the high end (I think the speaker was new) It was too harsh for me but I do recall the feel to be tighter. I was thinking a green beret or et-65 from wgs. The wgs 10's I thought sounded phenomenal until the amp was dimed. Just not my thing.

[krx]

Do you have access to some bigger speakers?

The speakers I was playing through were 10" wgs speakers. I have tried it through an eminence wizard but I play through a tele and I couldnt get passed the high end (I think the speaker was new) It was too harsh for me but I do recall the feel to be tighter. I was thinking a green beret or et-65 from wgs. The wgs 10's I thought sounded phenomenal until the amp was dimed. Just not my thing.

Those Warehouse 10s are good speakers but do break up pretty early. The 65 might be a good choice. The Green Beret can be kind of bright. You might also consider the Reaper HP, which is similar to the Wizard but should be a little warmer.

[axehack]

Those Warehouse 10s are good speakers but do break up pretty early. The 65 might be a good choice. The Green Beret can be kind of bright. You might also consider the Reaper HP, which is similar to the Wizard but should be a little warmer.

I agree the ten's sound great. I borrowed the cab but if they didnt break up so early I would put them in my own 2x10 pine cab.Are they close to the veteran thirty? i actually was leaning toward the wgs 65 for my 2x12 cab

[PaulBlandford]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again... I think these amps sound much better than most "classic" speakers will allow. A speaker that gives up the ghost too soon hides an otherwise stellar sounding circuit. What I like to hear is the amp, not a speaker that can't quite "do it". Put a struggling greenback in the mix and see how much command you have of the available spl. Conversely you won't find so many places to hide with a speaker that throws down every nuance you play.

Vintage (classic) speakers=comfy slippers

Nothing wrong with comfy slippers 'til you need to take the trash out.

-Paul

[axehack]

Vintage (classic) speakers=comfy slippers

Nothing wrong with comfy slippers 'til you need to take the trash out.

That's a great line!!

[krx]

Those Warehouse 10s are good speakers but do break up pretty early. The 65 might be a good choice. The Green Beret can be kind of bright. You might also consider the Reaper HP, which is similar to the Wizard but should be a little warmer.

I agree the ten's sound great. I borrowed the cab but if they didnt break up so early I would put them in my own 2x10 pine cab.Are they close to the veteran thirty? i actually was leaning toward the wgs 65 for my 2x12 cab

I'd email Warehouse, tell them you like the 10 but want less breakup and they can probably tell you which is the most similar. The 65 is a cool speaker. It's like a Greenback with smoother highs and less breakup. Whether it's a good choice for you depends on your style.

[zaphod_phil]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again... I think these amps sound much better than most "classic" speakers will allow. A speaker that gives up the ghost too soon hides an otherwise stellar sounding circuit. What I like to hear is the amp, not a speaker that can't quite "do it". Put a struggling greenback in the mix and see how much command you have of the available spl.

I can see your point of view, but many folks will argue that the Celestion Greenback or G12H-30 is an essential part of the classic 18W tone - ie it's an intrinsic part of the amp's definitive tone, not something separate from that.

[PaulBlandford]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again... I think these amps sound much better than most "classic" speakers will allow. A speaker that gives up the ghost too soon hides an otherwise stellar sounding circuit. What I like to hear is the amp, not a speaker that can't quite "do it". Put a struggling greenback in the mix and see how much command you have of the available spl.

I can see your point of view, but many folks will argue that the Celestion Greenback or G12H-30 is an essential part of the classic 18W tone - ie it's an intrinsic part of the amp's definitive tone, not something separate from that.

I totally agree, so there wouldn't be much of an argument.

-Paul

[zaphod_phil]

Maybe it's time to re-air this one
www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM