Fitzmaurice crossfire cab vs vertical slanted 2x12

[s151669]

So, I have 2 nice Vintage 30s looking for new home. Since my ankles nor my belly have no ears the basic horizontal or vertical 2x12" cab are no good. Currently I'm kind of torn between slanted vertical 2x12 or something like this:

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/XFCabs.html

Any experience with either ? In our last gig our other guitarist could not really hear me (1x12" open back combo), nor could I hear him (2x12 nonslanted upright cab). He even said he had problems hearing himself

Better positioning on the stage might have helped, but then again there really was no room.

So which would be the way to go, if
1) One must hear oneself
2) One must hear the other guy
3) Audience needs(?) to hear something too

[andersom]

I'm looking for a nice 2x12 cabinet for my new to build kit from valvepower..
What about this one? http://gabtone.com/2x12_slant_cab.htm
I really like the slanted style but it's not as big as an 4X12...
I want to try to build it myself.. but have to make the plans..

I hope you will work things out.

[CurtissRobin]

A period-correct (mid-60s) riser would be a chair stolen from one of the font tables at the club. There are dozens of tilt back or riser type stands. I like this one: http://www.ampstandback.com/store.php because it's light, strong and takes less space than anything else. (Except if you use the vintage method above which you don't have to pack and haul at all.)

A single cab of any design is mighty unlikely to satisfy your needs. If you're concerned with hearing each other I suggest adding an extension cab with a pad (adjustable attenuator) to each amp. Or an approach with less hardware to pack is to add a line out to each amp for connection to the monitor mixer.

KennyO

[PaulBlandford]

I have the Mesa vertical (not diagonal) 2x12 with V30's.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/ ... 12V-LG.htm

It sounds great and I never have a problem hearing myself. It's not light though.
-Paul

[s151669]

Yeah, I guess something like the Mesa or Gabriel is the thing to construct.

I've never been fan of any kind of riser things, even for combos, as they alter the sound. Also, they are not usually as stable as one would want. And they are yet another thing to bring along or improvise. And tilting a cab backwards does not just work, because then you can not place head on top of that.

I'll try to post some pictures when I actually manage to get something together. At current pace it might take a while Hopefully I get it done befoure our next (fourth ) gig.

[CurtissRobin]

Yeah, I guess something like the Mesa or Gabriel is the thing to construct.

That's a good concept. The angled upper disperses the sound well and the narrow width fits stages more easily than the wider-than-tall cabs.

I've never been fan of any kind of riser things, even for combos, as they alter the sound. Also, they are not usually as stable as one would want. And they are yet another thing to bring along or improvise. And tilting a cab backwards does not just work, because then you can not place head on top of that.

I agree that they're usually not that stable but that's because the cheap, light, portable ones are unstable while the stable ones are stout and spendy. It's one of our tradeoffs.

So now I ask why you need to have the head on top of the tilted speaker cab? In the 60's and 70's when I was gigging I placed the speaker(s) where and how it (they) would work best, used a heavy 25' cable to the head which rested on a (small, lightweight, entirely strong enough) stand near my spot on the stage. I got the idea from the iconic Vox tube frame then in use and adapted the legs of a scrapped folding table. The instrument cable could be shorter since I was nearer the input; the shorter cable sucked less highs than a long one; the head would be at a good height and angle for seeing the controls; I could adjust my amp as needed without traveling to the back line; and a head/speaker balancing act was entirely unnecessary. I don't recall microphonic EF86's being a problem (mostly because they were not common in the amps we played back then) but this would have helped if they had been. Just a suggestion.

KennyO

[s151669]

As I kind of tought, it has been a while.

That's a good concept. The angled upper disperses the sound well and the narrow width fits stages more easily than the wider-than-tall cabs.

Yep. On the last gig soundman kept telling that turn it down, yet I could barely hear myself. (I was using an old straight 2x12 cabinet, upright, on a beer crate).

So, I drew nice plans with stick figure me standing at same distance of cab as in the last gig, and figured out the angle for tilted part. It turned out to be 27 degrees, quite bit more than in commercial offerings. Experimenting with tilting back the old cab seemed to confirm this. So, pics, or it did not happen:

http://img294.imageshack.us/slideshow/w ... 10001g.jpg



Dimensions are selected so, that a small box plexi will fit on top of the cab. As if I'm ever going to need that kind of power...

I also found out, why commercial offerings are not done with this kind of tilt. It wastes a lot of tolex and side material, and it also makes the cabinet really deep. This one is not going to fit in to the trunk of my car...

[CurtissRobin]

Won't fit in the car? Take a page from the Jim Marshall and Pete Townsend book of design: break the design into two cabs, one a straight front and one a slant front and stack 'em. I saw one player a couple years ago that used floor monitors exclusively, stacking them on their "sides" for his back line rig. He put his amp head on the front of the drum riser for that show but a milk crate would do as well if there's no riser.

KennyO

[FlyingV74]

I have thought several times about getting a Lopo slant 2x12 to put on top of my Avatar 2x12. But I never followed through as I just didn't need a larger speaker setup. But I do think that it would look pretty nice!

I have also thought about mounting an 8" speaker in one hole opening of a 2x12 "wider than tall" cab with the 8" mounted on a hinged adjustable baffle. The hinged baffle would allow the 8" to be aimed more upward while the cabinet is sitting flat on the ground. I did mount an 8" in the 12" hole without the hinged baffle just to play around with the scenario. I used a G12H100 and a Super 8. I first connected the speakers in parallel only to discover that it sounded horribly muddy. So I wired them in series and they sounded much better. These two speakers played pretty well together. But I decided to ditch the 8" because I wanted to play around with the "detuned" cabinet idea. I will say that using the 8" as a passive radiator in the Avatar 2x12 did produce a noticeable increase in low end.

For that matter, perhaps a "reflector" could be placed in front of the 12" speaker to reflect some of the higher frequency sound upwards towards the ears. Perhaps this "reflector" could be shaped like the cone of the speaker and placed on a a steel rod. Then when not needed the refelector could be placed totally horizontal to the ground for minimal effect. And when needed, it could be rotated to the angle that works best for the stage environment.

[s151669]

Won't fit in the car?

Won't fit in trunk. Does fit in the back seat, which is good enough for occassional transport between rehearsal place and home. For gigs we need to beg, steal or borrow a van anyway...

[zaphod_phil]

So, I have 2 nice Vintage 30s looking for new home. Since my ankles nor my belly have no ears the basic horizontal or vertical 2x12" cab are no good.

A vertical 2X12 is actually very efficient at spreading the sound in a flattish arc across the stage.

[s151669]

A vertical 2X12 is actually very efficient at spreading the sound in a flattish arc across the stage.

Yes it is. Unfortunately, at the cramped stages I have performed, the sound opens up when it exits stage, not where I can stand

[StarGeezers]

Please check out this cab http://www.wattkins.com/node/15707 Built one for a single 12" and it worked out so well I'm making another ...
Strong , Light , sounds Killer ... projects all the sound forward ...

[s151669]

It seems, that most of the pictures were wrong - only those that were inline seemed about right, and then the server went down.

I managed to read trough the thread before that, and the idea kind of folding the open back to front is nice.

I also noticed, that you were thinking that the tiltback should be greater for cramped stages. Sounds quite familiar

[StarGeezers]

S' , sorry about the pics , been jumbled since the upgrade ... Yes more tilt !!! A second cab would incorporate even More tilt for broader dispersion , especially for the player on a small stage .... which they mostly seem to be ...
Being an "older" player , two small cabs are much better than one Large one ... even with wheels , as we have to lift them in and out of the vehicle ...

[StarGeezers]

Good News !!!! Rock fixed the cab pics ... http://www.wattkins.com/node/15707?page ... ent-160131 post 142

[s151669]

Nice work there, but not enough tilt

The extreme tilt design worked very nicely at rehearsals yesterday. I was very happy about how well I could hear myself with vvr turned quite low.

I was also happy that I invested in big wheels for the cabinet, as it is quite a handful to lug around The real test is next gig at friday. When do we get roadies ?

[zip008]

S' , sorry about the pics , been jumbled since the upgrade ... Yes more tilt !!! A second cab would incorporate even More tilt for broader dispersion , especially for the player on a small stage .... which they mostly seem to be ...
Being an "older" player , two small cabs are much better than one Large one ... even with wheels , as we have to lift them in and out of the vehicle ...

Seems to me you just need to make your head cab (on top of the speaker cab) deep enough to be able to put a stage monitor on top of it.

Stage monitor boxes are cheap, the speaker would be up high and pointed at your face (or back of your head - facing the crowd on stage) and each box would be light and small to carry around. You can even opt for a smaller 10" greenback to have an even smaller monitor cab.

(A little padding between the cabs may help to reduce tube microphonics...)

here a drawing: http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8800 ... ersetu.png

Is this workable?