Speaker Re-Cone?

Jaicen · Post by **Jaicen** » Thu 02/25/10 6:55 pm

Can anyone advise me as to the best course of action with regards to re-coning vintage speakers?
At what point do you give up on a cone and replace it? I have a couple of speakers with tears ranging from an inch or so, to three inches or so. Can the larger splits be patched? They'll never be driven by more than 18w, mostly less with VVR.
Take for example; I have a pair of Celestions, one G12M and one G12H (55Hz) with large (3") splits. If I was to patch them, will they sound ok, or is re-coning called for.
If re-coning is necessary, does anyone know of a source for cones that will give me that pre-Rola sound?

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Thu 02/25/10 7:37 pm

If the voice coil doesn't rub and it's a single simple cut or tear which doesn't split into different branches, you can certainly repair the cone. Use some rubber cement and toilet paper. I've done this a few times and it works fine.

krx · Post by **krx** » Thu 02/25/10 8:42 pm

If they're as beat as they sound, I don't think patching is going to cut it (could be okay for the 1-inch tear if there's just the one tear though). Big tears like that come from serious abuse, either sonic, physical, or environmental. If they're Pulsonic cones, not KMs, then I'd talk to Scumback and see if they can help you out. If they're KMs, any guitar reconing place can do it.

nyazzip · Post by **nyazzip** » Fri 02/26/10 1:04 am

i've used coffee filters as patches, with a mixture of flour and water and elmers glue. also i have used "tissue" paper, used for wrapping gifts. i used chop sticks to prod the ragged paper back into shape first. works fine for low powered speakers but at high volumes/bass guitar i would keep my eye on it.
i would think toilet paper would just be too weak...also a tip someone gave me was to use magnets on either side of the patch to hold it in place.

Jaicen · Post by **Jaicen** » Fri 02/26/10 6:53 am

Thanks for the advice guyst, I guess it's a case of trying the patch and hope for the best. If it doesn't come off, I guess i'll look at having tehm re-coned, but that begs another question:
Will a late seventies re-cone sound better than a modern repro? Is it worth spending the money on?

John_A · Post by **John_A** » Fri 02/26/10 7:32 am

Jaicen wrote:Thanks for the advice guyst, I guess it's a case of trying the patch and hope for the best. If it doesn't come off, I guess i'll look at having tehm re-coned, but that begs another question:
Will a late seventies re-cone sound better than a modern repro? Is it worth spending the money on?

A good recone will cost almost as much as a new speaker, but your reconed vintage speaker would be more valuable on the second-hand market than a new one.

As for which would sound 'better' that's a matter of opinion, IMO there are some great sounding new speakers, but if the sound of a vintage G12M or H is what you are looking for then reconing your old ones is the way I would go.

You can buy re-coning kits, but they are almost the same cost as getting it done by a pro, it's also a fiddly job and easy to mess up.

Jaicen · Post by **Jaicen** » Fri 02/26/10 7:43 am

That's pretty much what I was hoping for. I really want that vintage tone, sort of like Hendrix with the big bass and sparkly treble riding over the top if that makes sense.
Do you have any recommendations for a pro recone in the UK?

StarGeezers · Post by **StarGeezers** » Fri 02/26/10 9:12 am

Jai,safe to say everyone wants that sound ....

' Good Luck re-coning . Find a reputable shop, it is EXPENSIVE !!! but a good re-coned speaker can last another 50 years ...

I worked in a shop that did re coning (1969) some time ago .. although not a difficult process it is exacting. And the parts are dear...

For those daring enough to try reconing , Parts Express has some parts ...and then you need those exact shims to center the VC before gluing in.

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Fri 02/26/10 9:15 am

krx wrote:If they're as beat as they sound, I don't think patching is going to cut it (could be okay for the 1-inch tear if there's just the one tear though). Big tears like that come from serious abuse, either sonic, physical, or environmental.

I successfully repaired one fairly new speaker cone that had a 3" long cut in it from a craft knife. Certainly a form of physical abuse, but easy to fix. I agree that if a cone is really old and tired, then it may be time for a re-cone anyway.

nyazzip wrote: i would think toilet paper would just be too weak...

Trust me it isn't. And I'm not the only person to use it. A couple of layers with some fabric glue bonds in well with the cone material and gives a similar fibrous consistency. You can also use paper kitchen towel, provided it's not too thick or heavily patterned.

nyazzip wrote:...also a tip someone gave me was to use magnets on either side of the patch to hold it in place.

Now that's a neat trick!

John_A wrote:A good recone will cost almost as much as a new speaker, but your reconed vintage speaker would be more valuable on the second-hand market than a new one.

When I was in the UK I had recones done on old Celestion speakers by Wembley Loudspeakers for around 30ish pounds + VAT. That's about half the price of a new speaker, and therefore well worth it IMO. The guys there also know the correct types of cones to use in these vintage speakers. But if the damage isn't too bad, and you're not reselling the speakers, then a simple repair should be fine.

paulschnettler · Post by **paulschnettler** » Fri 02/26/10 10:16 am

IMHO the best stuff to use in lieu of tissue paper is lens cleaning paper. It has a bit of cloth fibre in the makeup that just has a bit more "substance" to it that makes it easier to work with when saturated with cement or dope.

Post by **CurtissRobin** » Fri 02/26/10 2:20 pm

Except that lens cleaning tissue is usually impregnated with stuff that may interfere with your adhesive. I've only repaired two cones in my life but the guy who taught me the tissue trick recommended either of two things: The lesser recommendation, which he said is still entirely serviceable, is the really cheap motel variety of tissues (which I believe is about the same as airport toilet paper; you know, about 400 or 500 grit). His preferred material was one ply of a good grade multi-ply paper towel which has nice long fibers. The problem there is that you can easily separate the plies accidentally but when it's intentional you'll probably go crazy trying.

I really like the magnet trick! Thanks!

KennyO

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Fri 02/26/10 7:14 pm

CurtissRobin wrote: His preferred material was one ply of a good grade multi-ply paper towel which has nice long fibers.

Yes, that's real good to use.

Spongebob · Post by **Spongebob** » Fri 02/26/10 8:37 pm

Jaicen wrote: Do you have any recommendations for a pro recone in the UK?

Try this link for a UK based recone company http://www.audioloudspeakers.co.uk/boultons.shtml

Spongebob

Post by **zaphod_phil** » Sat 02/27/10 12:40 am

Based in London - http://www.wembleyloudspeaker.com/ Like I said, these guys really know their stuff.

Jaicen · Post by **Jaicen** » Sat 02/27/10 9:54 am

Thanks for the links guys. I contacted Wembley who seem to be very reasonable, and can apparently use a 1777 cone. My G12H is a 55Hz, is the 1777 available as a 55Hz cone, and if not, is it something to hold out for?
I figure the EL84 PA is quite bright, so the 55Hz cone might help balance it a bit?

krx · Post by **krx** » Sat 02/27/10 12:52 pm

Jaicen wrote:Thanks for the links guys. I contacted Wembley who seem to be very reasonable, and can apparently use a 1777 cone. My G12H is a 55Hz, is the 1777 available as a 55Hz cone, and if not, is it something to hold out for?
I figure the EL84 PA is quite bright, so the 55Hz cone might help balance it a bit?

The 1777 is a 75 Hz cone. It has a very different frequency response than a 55 Hz cone. The volume/breakup/dynamics/etc. are very similar though. I would look for a proper 55 Hz cone.

The Pulsonic 55 Hz is 102 014. The Kurt Mueller is 444. If you have the Pulsonic cones in yours, I would honestly sell those speakers and buy new ones. They're worth a lot, even with busted cones, but there's no replacement cones available as far as I know.

Jaicen · Post by **Jaicen** » Sat 02/27/10 3:17 pm

My speakers are late 70's, so neither have Pulsonic cones.
Is the frequency difference between the 55Hz and 75Hz that pronounced?

krx · Post by **krx** » Sat 02/27/10 4:00 pm

Jaicen wrote:My speakers are late 70's, so neither have Pulsonic cones.
Is the frequency difference between the 55Hz and 75Hz that pronounced?

Yes. Go here and listen to the H55 and H75 clips and you'll hear it: http://scumbackspeakers.com/h_series.html

dgriff · Post by **dgriff** » Sun 02/28/10 2:06 am

Hi, I have a Vintage 30 which needs a recone. If a 1777 cone was to be used, would it tame the icepickness, or just throw everything else out of balance?

krx · Post by **krx** » Sun 02/28/10 7:42 am

dgriff wrote:Hi, I have a Vintage 30 which needs a recone. If a 1777 cone was to be used, would it tame the icepickness, or just throw everything else out of balance?

You'll probably pay as much for a recone as you would a new speaker. Best bet is to sell the busted one for $20 or whatever and buy a new one.

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Speaker Re-Cone?

Speaker Re-Cone?