Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

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LedZepp007
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Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by LedZepp007 »

Sounds dirty somehow...

Here's my quick question. I'm going to build an 18-watter in the not-too-distant future. Actually probably more than one. Which is why it makes sense for me to build or acquire a speaker cab first (versus building a bunch of combos).

Question: Does it make more sense to buy a cheap 4x12 (Marshall MG level, particle board, etc.) and gut the insides or to try and build a 4x12 from scratch (which, if my electronic skills were noobish, my woodworking skills are absolute sh*t)? I would like to go closed back, and I know (or read) that you may need to tune the back panel so it doesn't sound terrible.

Thanks!
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by tank624 »

Building a cabinet is not complicated if you have access to the proper tools which would keep it simple; but if you want an easy and reasonable way-Avatar has empty cabinets as does several other builders. I have a wood shop and it is still easier to have it built vs doing it myself unless I wanted something in all wood with dovetail joints than I would do it myself. keep an eye out on Ebay or craigs list,you may find what you need.... Frank
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by JMPGuitars »

Unless you get it crazy cheap, it's better to just have one built for you. I'm happy with the quality from Mojotone, like Frank said, there's a lot of good builders out there.

Woodworking and electronics skills are two completely different things. It's definitely easier to learn one set of skills at a time.

The other thing is, if you get a used cab, get one in good shape. Stuff like replacing tolex and hardware can get expensive (enough to bridge the gap between buying new and used)...and covering a cabinet is yet another skill on top of the woodworking.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by LedZepp007 »

Thanks for the help.

So, sounds like it's definitely most cost effective to have one built and then put my speakers of choice inside.

I can't decide whether I want to do a 2x12, 1x12 + 1x10, 1x12, or 4x12.

Also, is it generally a good idea to match speaker sensitivity? I'd still love to try and make a "test cabinet" with different speaker sizes, wattages, and sensitivities that can be selected individually and that are sonically complimentary. I'm not sure that's possible, however.

I'll probably just have Mojo or Avatar build me one in the 18-watt 2x12 style, but cut for a 1x12 + 1x10. Although I might have them build me a BB-style extension.

I'd also like to try out Mojo's pickups and their speakers. I hear both are excellent.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by JMPGuitars »

Deciding on speaker cutouts, the only thing I can say is decide how heavy you want the thing to be if you plan on bringing it anywhere.

All else being equal, you're likely to hear a more sensitive speaker over a much less sensitive speaker. Whether or not you can perceive the difference in level is a whole other question, and depends on how far the gap in sensitivity is.

I don't have any personal experience with Mojo's speakers or pickups, but I have heard really good feedback on their speakers. I haven't looked into their pickups at all. Lately I've been getting handmade pickups from Isaac Stuckey (he's on this board too) and they're fantastic. As for speakers, I've been mostly curious about their BV-25M at 16 Ohms. I'm guessing that would be a good match for an 18 Watt amp.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by LedZepp007 »

Would it be crazy to run an American voiced speaker and a British voiced speaker in the same 2x12 mainly for use with an 18-watt?
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by JMPGuitars »

LedZepp007 wrote:Would it be crazy to run an American voiced speaker and a British voiced speaker in the same 2x12 mainly for use with an 18-watt?
Not at all. No matter how anybody labels their speakers, it all comes down to personal taste. Listen to each speaker separately to see how it sounds with the amp, and then listen together to see if you like the combination better than the individual sound. Just always be sure to set the impedance correctly.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by LedZepp007 »

OK, thanks for all of the help.

I've decided to go with an Avatar Vintage 2x10, Closed Back, with one Greenback and one G10 Gold. Should run about $490 including shipping. Not too bad, I suppose.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by JMPGuitars »

LedZepp007 wrote:OK, thanks for all of the help.

I've decided to go with an Avatar Vintage 2x10, Closed Back, with one Greenback and one G10 Gold. Should run about $490 including shipping. Not too bad, I suppose.
Couple thoughts for ya... If you go closed-back, get one of the multi-panel ones where you can remove sections of the back panel to experiment with the sound.

If you're getting the speakers broken in that's probably cool, but if not, I would look at other options from Eminence or Tone Tubby or the Mojo speakers you were thinking about. New production Celestion speakers aren't worth the money in my opinion.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by makerdp »

Also look into WGS (Warehouse Guitar Speakers). They are winning a lot of converts.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by LedZepp007 »

JMPGuitars wrote:
LedZepp007 wrote:OK, thanks for all of the help.

I've decided to go with an Avatar Vintage 2x10, Closed Back, with one Greenback and one G10 Gold. Should run about $490 including shipping. Not too bad, I suppose.
Couple thoughts for ya... If you go closed-back, get one of the multi-panel ones where you can remove sections of the back panel to experiment with the sound.

If you're getting the speakers broken in that's probably cool, but if not, I would look at other options from Eminence or Tone Tubby or the Mojo speakers you were thinking about. New production Celestion speakers aren't worth the money in my opinion.
This would be my preference (or WGS), but the gold and greenback would together would only be about $200 more than the cab itself. And it would be convenient for the speakers to already be installed.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by LedZepp007 »

LedZepp007 wrote:
JMPGuitars wrote:
LedZepp007 wrote:OK, thanks for all of the help.

I've decided to go with an Avatar Vintage 2x10, Closed Back, with one Greenback and one G10 Gold. Should run about $490 including shipping. Not too bad, I suppose.
Couple thoughts for ya... If you go closed-back, get one of the multi-panel ones where you can remove sections of the back panel to experiment with the sound.

If you're getting the speakers broken in that's probably cool, but if not, I would look at other options from Eminence or Tone Tubby or the Mojo speakers you were thinking about. New production Celestion speakers aren't worth the money in my opinion.
This would be my preference (or WGS), but the gold and greenback would together would only be about $200 more than the cab itself. And it would be convenient for the speakers to already be installed.
Also, thanks so much for e help everyone. I got the Megantz book today in the mail. I'm learning a lot from it. I think I can do this, even though my applied intelligence is severely lacking.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by CurtissRobin »

I vote for 1x12 and/or 2x12 cabs unless you're playing LARGE venues. 4x12 has too narrow a spread for a lounge or club, yielding a hot spot directly in front of it with little dispersion to the sides. Besides, 4x12 are bigger and heavier to schlep around as well as tough to get in and out of a musician-affordable car. If you like the sound, 2x10 cabs are cool, too.

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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by Daviedawg »

I have been slow to catch up on this thread. I would have said 2x10 right away. It gives a great balance of good volume and range of tones without the EL84 brightness becoming too much. I have two Celestion V10 60s which needed a lot of breaking in even though they were 15 years old when I got them as they had been used very gently. But since playing through my 18 watt has no downside it was not as bad as it may seem.

I cannot comment from experience on the other newer 10" speakers. But there is a wide range of good speakers available.

Dd
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by johnatgburg »

I have to agree with makerdp who posted earlier about WGS speakers. I just bought a Green Beret 25W to run my 18W through and mounted it in a detuned cab I built for it. It's just basically a 2x12 cab that I only mounted the one driver in the top hole. It sounds frickin amazing! Now I don't have to try to get all my driven tone from my amp and I can turn it down to find the sweet spot. Anyway, this GWS speaker sounds great and I'd have paid more for it than I did. I would highly endorse it. Also, I think the greenback type sound works well with this cabinet design. And the WGS has a little better low end tightness than the Celestion imo.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by JMPGuitars »

That's awesome, I'm glad to hear the WGS is another good place to look for a nice alternative to the celestion stuff. I have an Eminence Private Jack on the way, and that's also supposed to be a better Greenback. I figure if it isn't a vintage English made Celestion, it's not worth the $$$.

To me, modern production Celestion is like taking a a Gibson USA reissue model Les Paul, and having it built in China but still charging $4000 for it because they didn't call it an Epiphone instead.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by makerdp »

Well, if this means anything to you...

Paul Reed Smith, at the prices he charges for his amps can afford to put anything he wants into them... a difference of $100 per speaker isn't anything to the type of person who buys a $4000 amplifier. He chooses WGS which is about 1/2 or less the price of an equivalent Celestion.

And they are made in the USA.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by JMPGuitars »

makerdp wrote:Well, if this means anything to you...

Paul Reed Smith, at the prices he charges for his amps can afford to put anything he wants into them... a difference of $100 per speaker isn't anything to the type of person who buys a $4000 amplifier. He chooses WGS which is about 1/2 or less the price of an equivalent Celestion.

And they are made in the USA.
Exactly. There's a lot of great USA made speaker companies to choose from. That's why it doesn't make any sense to me to spend EXTRA money to get something made in China. I'm very happy with what I've used from Eminence, Tone Tubby, and Weber. I'll definitely try some WGS in the future too.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by johnatgburg »

Yes, you should definitely try WGS. I am just completely satisfied with mine so far. I was hoping the slightly less efficient speaker would tame my volume a bit but I don't notice any difference, but that's why I bought the attenuator.
To me, modern production Celestion is like taking a a Gibson USA reissue model Les Paul, and having it built in China but still charging $4000 for it because they didn't call it an Epiphone instead.
I hear ya, I'd never buy something like that. My second guitar which I still own is a '76 Les Paul Custom and I don't think I paid over $685 for it new. Of course, that was like $4000 now. But I also have a problem paying extra for a name or an emblem or insignia. I could care less about that stuff. I think my favorite guitar to play besides my late brother's '83 Flying V is my first guitar, which is an Epiphone. I bought it in '73 for something like $175 and it had the best action ever.
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Re: Build a Cab versus Buy and Strip?

Post by JMPGuitars »

johnatgburg wrote: I hear ya, I'd never buy something like that. My second guitar which I still own is a '76 Les Paul Custom and I don't think I paid over $685 for it new. Of course, that was like $4000 now. But I also have a problem paying extra for a name or an emblem or insignia. I could care less about that stuff. I think my favorite guitar to play besides my late brother's '83 Flying V is my first guitar, which is an Epiphone. I bought it in '73 for something like $175 and it had the best action ever.
My favorite acoustic is an Epiphone Masterbilt. I'm not big on names either, but it does illustrate the point well. ;)
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