Help Needed - PCB Software

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TriodeLuvr
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Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by TriodeLuvr »

I'm looking for PCB layout software, and I only need a few basic features. Hopefully there's something out there for free, and I need it to run under Win XP.

To be more specific, I don't need auto-routing or even multiple layers. I just need to be able to create boards with 15 or 20 pads, add traces between them as appropriate, then export the pads and traces in a DXF drawing file.

FWIW, I have the software from PCB Express, and it can export in DXF format. However, the exported file only contains the board outline and pad locations. Traces are not shown. Maybe this is intentional, in order to prevent using the software to create boards for other vendors. Or maybe it's just the way PCB software works. This is out of my area of expertise, so I'm not sure.

I need to make a couple small power supply boards about 3 inches square. I can do it myself if I can create a DXF file of the layout, including copper wiring (traces). Any help with this will be appreciated!

Jack
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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by JMPGuitars »

Hi Jack!

I use KiCad, it's excellent and free. There's tons of tutorials on youtube. Typical work flow is to make your schematic, then generate a netlist, and import into the pcb part of the app (pcbnew). You can also assign parts prior to generating the netlist, and then when you open it up in pcbnew, the correct footprints will be there. I realize some of that is more advanced than what you asked about, but the more basic stuff works too. It's all better than PCBExpress, which I used a lot a decade ago.

Thanks,
Josh
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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by TriodeLuvr »

Hey Josh, it's been awhile. Happy New Year! From what I've read, KiCAD is problematic with XP. I would probably have to install (and learn) Linux in order to use it. Let me explain what I'm doing.

Most PCBs I need for projects involve ICs and dozens of parts. I always have those made. But from time to time (like now), I want to cut a few small boards with five or six parts using my CNC mill. The CAD software I use to generate CAM files used by the mill isn't workable for drawing PCB traces. However, it can import DXF, and I can use the shapes in the DXF file to create a cutting pattern. If the PCB software could similarly import DXF from the CAD program (which would contain hole placements), that would be a bonus, but not essential in getting this done. The boards I want to do this way are small, so re-drawing pad locations using the PCB software isn't a big deal.

One of my PCs has AutoCAD, but I haven't used it in at least 15 years. I'll look to see if that might be a way to move forward. I have a feeling that actual PCB software of some sort would be faster.

Jack
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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by TriodeLuvr »

Here's an example of what I'm trying to do. This is a voltage double supply built for a preamp project. It took a long time to create the simple traces for this in the CAD software...

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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by JMPGuitars »

TriodeLuvr wrote:
Mon 01/17/22 12:26 pm
Hey Josh, it's been awhile. Happy New Year! From what I've read, KiCAD is problematic with XP. I would probably have to install (and learn) Linux in order to use it. Let me explain what I'm doing.
Happy New Year! It has been a while, I hope all is well.

Unless you find old versions of stuff, there's not much you'll find to run on XP well. Windows XP was EoL in 2014. You would probably find Linux runs better on the older system, or if the specs are good enough, maybe give Windows 10 a try?

Thanks,
Josh
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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by TriodeLuvr »

All my productivity software is contained on three PCs here at home. It's an extensive collection of expensive applications including Photoshop, AutoCAD, CNC software, MS Office, etc. Upgrade cost would be prohibitive, so I maintain dual systems. I use a Macbook for all Web activity, and the XP desktops never go online.

Freeware/shareware applications typically maintain older versions on their Websites. Older commercial software can often be found on eBay or at Half-Price Books. I'm sure that if I can identify a program with the capability I need, I'll be able to locate a copy.

I was hoping to resolve this within a day or two, but it's starting to look like that might not be possible. Maybe I'll spend an hour or so with my AutoCAD manual to see if that's workable.

Thanks for your input!

Jack
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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by JMPGuitars »

On a forum somebody said you could try version 4 of KiCad: https://downloads.kicad.org/kicad/windo ... ore/stable

Dual booting Linux on that XP system could probably work for you if that doesn't. You could potentially run Linux with KiCad on a USB stick.

Thanks,
Josh
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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by TriodeLuvr »

Thanks Josh, I'll look into that. I wasted about four hours today futzing around with this. I was hoping to cut a couple boards, not spend all afternoon in front of the computer. Maybe I should just order the boards. LOL, at least I can press the turrets in without help.
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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by wmwelch55 »

I have made dozens of PCB for pedals.

I use Sprint Layout 6.0 for my PCBs. It's really easy to use and will create gerber files for manufacturing. It will also run on XP. It's not free, but I think it is worth 49 euros.

DIYLC is free and a pretty good tool. Also easy to use. It runs on Java and will work on XP.

I tried KiCad and there is a learning curve for that one. Great software though.

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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by TriodeLuvr »

Well, I've installed half a dozen PCB programs now, and the result is what I feared most. Even the ones that offer good functionality for their intended purpose don't export a DXF file that's usable in the CAD software I use for milling. I even tried exporting to DXF, picking it up in AutoCAD (which displayed the pads and traces correctly), then exporting to *.eps. That produced a different, but no more usable, result.

The only solution now is to export the mill drawing as *.eps and open it with Corel. All the circles (pads) will need to be replaced in Corel with "primitive" objects in order for the weld function to work correctly. Weld is what connects the traces that I draw to the pads in a way that creates closed loops for the mill to cut around. Once this is all done, I can export back to *.eps and import into the milling software. More work than I wanted to do, but not a deal breaker for a couple small boards like this.

Incidentally, I ran across one PCB package that seems to be really excellent. It's called DipTrace, and there's a limited hobbyist version that's free. It exports in many formats, including Gerber, so it can be used for ordering boards from any vendor.

https://diptrace.com

Thanks for everyone's advice. With any luck, I'll get these boards drafted and cut in a day or two.

Jack
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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by AussieTim »

Might be time to move into the 21st century as far as you computing goes,
My mate is a computer guy who runs older versions of window within linux in order to keep some older software going. I have no Idea how he does it, just I know he does it and can run xp programs on his modern computer
https://www.ubuntu-user.com/Magazine/Ar ... XP-machine
https://www.howtogeek.com/228689/how-to ... indows-10/
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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by TriodeLuvr »

Got the work done in Corel - Yay! Took less than an hour once I got the hang of it. Here's a screen shot of the side-by-side view in the mill CAD software. The drill pattern is on the left, the traces and pads are on the right. (The zig-zags are the result of the screen shot. The work won't look like that.) It's a simple matter now to cut the boards.

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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by TriodeLuvr »

AussieTim wrote:
Tue 01/18/22 6:17 am
Might be time to move into the 21st century as far as you computing goes,
My mate is a computer guy who runs older versions of window within linux in order to keep some older software going. I have no Idea how he does it, just I know he does it and can run xp programs on his modern computer
https://www.ubuntu-user.com/Magazine/Ar ... XP-machine
https://www.howtogeek.com/228689/how-to ... indows-10/
Thanks, I'll take a look. The thing that's most likely to eventually push me into a newer OS is photography. My next DSLR upgrade will almost certainly come with processing software that isn't compatible with XP. I'm not looking forward to that.
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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by TriodeLuvr »

Just to follow up, here are the boards. I'll press in the turrets and add other parts tomorrow. There's a certain level of satisfaction in doing something like this yourself, but not sure I would do it again. Milling these small PCBs is tedious and much more time consuming than the final result might lead one to believe. Express PCB would have done this for $65, and I probably could have worked on something more worthwhile until they arrived. Oh well, it's done now, and I probably won't need boards like this again for at least a year.

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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by JMPGuitars »

TriodeLuvr wrote:
Wed 01/19/22 1:29 am
Just to follow up, here are the boards. I'll press in the turrets and add other parts tomorrow. There's a certain level of satisfaction in doing something like this yourself, but not sure I would do it again. Milling these small PCBs is tedious and much more time consuming than the final result might lead one to believe. Express PCB would have done this for $65, and I probably could have worked on something more worthwhile until they arrived. Oh well, it's done now, and I probably won't need boards like this again for at least a year.

Jack
jlcpcb.com would have probably done 5 for like $2.00.

I'm a photographer also. I currently process my photos in Capture One, it's perty nice.

Thanks,
Josh
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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by TriodeLuvr »

It's funny how many electronics people are also avid photographers. I shot Nikon film bodies for many years, but sold everything off and switched to Canon when I finally (reluctantly) went digital. Canon's free RAW processing software is superb, and I haven't needed to use anything else except occasional Photoshop.

About JLCPCB, the cost would be about half of Express PCB by the time shipping is included. That's not enough difference for me to abandon a US-made product. Also, and not to get too political, I spend a lot of money every year to choose Western products over Chinese whenever the option is available. I know some people probably think this is foolish, but it's the way I do business. As a manufacturer yourself, I'm sure you can appreciate the importance of patronizing our own.

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Re: Help Needed - PCB Software

Post by JMPGuitars »

TriodeLuvr wrote:
Wed 01/19/22 3:10 pm
It's funny how many electronics people are also avid photographers. I shot Nikon film bodies for many years, but sold everything off and switched to Canon when I finally (reluctantly) went digital. Canon's free RAW processing software is superb, and I haven't needed to use anything else except occasional Photoshop.

About JLCPCB, the cost would be about half of Express PCB by the time shipping is included. That's not enough difference for me to abandon a US-made product. Also, and not to get too political, I spend a lot of money every year to choose Western products over Chinese whenever the option is available. I know some people probably think this is foolish, but it's the way I do business. As a manufacturer yourself, I'm sure you can appreciate the importance of patronizing our own.

Jack
There are also better domestic companies that would do it. oshpark.com, and lots of other companies. Oddly though, I used expresspcb years ago, and I thought they had the boards made overseas also. I would be bankrupt if I did all my prototypes and designs with domestic manufacturers. I'm a globalist, though I have nothing against supporting domestic companies. My issue is when a company wants to charge me literally 10 to 50 times more to produce a lesser product.

I shot Canon for years, but I switched back to Sony. I love their full frame mirrorless stuff. I shoot with the A7R3 and I recently bought a used R1 for goofing around/travel.

Thanks,
Josh
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