Stranded vs Solid hookup wire

[Aaron]

Hey yall,

I know stranded is better for durability and noise reduction, but I'd really like to use solid core wire for the heater wires in my new build - i'm planning on twisting them together to cancel hum anyway... will this be enough to minimize noise? is there really a big difference between the solid and stranded for this part of the circuit anyway?

-Aaron

[Shea]

Gabi told me the drawback of solid-core wire is microphonics. Microphonics would cause an issue with signal-carrying leads, but I wouldn't worry about them with heaters.

Shea

[loverocker]

Interesting - all the new the ground and signal wires on my WEM rebuild are all solid (the original heater wiring stayed in place). Guess I'll soon find out if microphonics play a part.

For heater wires, I'd worry that the twisting might cause a break, but that'd be easy to spot and fix anyway...

[Aaron]

the reason i want to use them for heaters is because that was possibly the most frustrating thing i did last time. i think with solid core wire it will be a bit easier since the wires will stay more or less in place.

[Psalm150]

I use solid all on all my amps. Never had any problem with breaking or microphonics. The stuff is just sooo much eaiser to use. Espe. the cloth covered solid!

[Aaron]

cltoh covered hmm? sounds good. do you know if this is the stuff Hoffman sells? He calls it Fender style, but does that mean solid?

[Psalm150]

Hoffman sells the cloth covered. From his site:

'New LOWER PRICE - 22 gauge cloth covered hook wire.
Looks, smells and taste exactly like vintage Fender wire.
6 colors. Red - Blue - Yellow - Black - White - Brown.'

I think he means 'hook-UP wire'. Once you go cloth , you'll never go back. I hate all the stripping with the other. Worst part of amp building to me.

[Aaron]

excellent. that's exactly what i'll get then. not only will it look cool, but it'll be way easier. I agree, the stripping sucks. I have a cool stripper that lets you feed the wire in to a measured length eveyr time and it makes it easier, but i'd rather not do it at all. very cool.

[loverocker]

Dumb question alert What makes stripping cloth-covered wire easier. I ain't never used it afore...

[Aaron]

heh. well, all you have to do is cut the wire where you want it. then, instead of actually stripping it, you just shove the cloth back a bit and solder.

[jeeeyum]

What guage of wire would be the best to use for the 18w, or tube amps in general?

[kinmike]

Jeeeyum,

Use 22 gage for general hook-up. Then, I follow the "Heater Wires Diagram" from the Hoffman website that shows to use 20 gage for pre-amp heaters then switch to 18 gage for power tube heaters and on to the power tranny and lamp.

Hope this helps,

Mike

[Psalm150]

I just use 22 ga. and 18 for the heaters (pre-amp and power) and other heavy stuff. That keeps it simple.

[Jason]

Aaron,

Well, when it comes to wire, here is what I think about it.

Solid wire is great because it usually stays where you put it. A downer is that over long, and abusive periods of time, solid wire has been known to break--especially when used for filaments on Octal sockets--repeated plugging/unplugging "could" possibly cause the socket pins to put tension on the sold wire and cause it to break. However, this could just be isolated incidents by famous tube gurus--haha. Speaking of which, Ken Fischer, who I like a lot, but disagree with on some points, has expressed the opinion that Dielectric Absorbance [DA] can be heard when using different insulation--supposedly because of the capacitance differences in the insulation. For instance, he once expressed [pun] to me that he notices a notable tone difference when using PVC, Irradiated PVC, Teflon, etc. wire insulation.

FWIW, I like using Silver/Teflon wire because it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling --I don't really notice a tonal difference though. It's easy to work with and when soldering to base metal contacts [like Angela ceramic/silver sockets], using silver plated wire with silver solder [Radio Shack 2% is great stuff!] is supposed to keep the silver from migrating. In otherwords, it is supposed to keep the silver plating from becoming removed over time. If you are going to solder to silver/gold plated contacts or wire, use silver solder. However, tonally, you may get a few more higher frequency harmonics through by using silver wire because of silver's high conductivity, but it has more to do with keeping the integrity of the joint over time for me. Also, I like Teflon becuase I find it easy to strip--am I weird? I use a crappy old pair of adjustable cheapie strippers and they work well. What matters is the amount of pressure you exert on the insulation/wire. You don't want to leave marks on the wire--especially solid core--beause that would cause a weak point where flexing could eventually break the wire striaght through.

Cloth is killer stuff. I just ordered more from Angela Instruments today. They have stranded cloth wire that rocks. I seem to get less "snags" with the cotton insulation when using electrician's scissors with their wire vs. Mojo's cotton wire. Maybe it's just me. Also, the pre-tinned/stranded stuff is a breeze to work with and sounds great. I used this in my 18 Watt and 5E3. Becuase it is pre-tinned, it stays put like solid core wire.

Your solder joints are way, way more important than esoteric/exotic parts or wire. A cold joint will cause **** sound. Over time, if your joint is not soldered properly, it could also come loose or become oxidized as well.

As for PVC, I use a heat sink [chapie aluminum radio shack clip typ] on the exposed wire at the joint so the insulation will not melt. Even a quick hit at the joint with a soldering iron could cause the insulation to melt becuase the wire is a conductor of heat--and it stays hot for many seconds after the joint has been soldered and the iron removed.

As for flexing inside of an amp: the only place this is likely to occur is on the sockets. Sure wire vibrates all the time inside of an amp, but the worst "flexing" is from the repeated plugging/unplugging of vacuum tubes.

As for microphonics: Some think that stranded is more microphonic than solid. I don' think the wire is microphonic, I think that the vibrating wire hooked to a vacuum tube inside the chassis is what could be microphonic. In this case, cloth is great because it damps out vibration a bit. Although, I use thin walled 600V Teflon wire in my heads, and these amps are quiet as a mouse. Even when sitting on a Slant 4X12 full blast. Must be the Sorbothane feet...Anyway, pickups, tubes, chassis, etc are all have the potential to be way more microphonic than any single wire IME.

Jason

[gtrmac]

I don't think you can hear the wire in a guitar amp. The electric guitar's sheilded cable has enough capacitance to reduce the bandwidth to a very narrow range in the first place so where is the advantage of using expensive wire inside the amp. The frequencies aren't there in the first place. I even doubt that you can hear differences in wire with hi fi amps. I've seen recording engineers that used elephant wires from the amp to their monitor speakers and claimed they heard a difference. When they saw the tiny wire inside the speaker cabinet they seemed to want to change the subject quickly. Some also had monster AC cords for their equipment and said they could hear this too even when the amp or tape machine had a regulated power supply.

Sorry for the rant but I've seen a lot of hocus-pocus over the years in recording studios and mastering rooms (especially the latter!).

I agree though that solid core makes a neater dress and the cloth covered looks nice. I used it on my 5E3 clone. I'm using stranded PVC on my 18 watt though because I think that's what Jim Marshall used. I'm putting my money on the components, especially caps, and trusting that the original design of the amp is where most of the tone is coming from. I wish I could afford a Celestion Alnico Blue though. I'm sure this would really enhance the tone. I'm using a Greenback to save some money.

[Plexi]

"""Gabi told me the drawback of solid-core wire is microphonics. Microphonics would cause an issue with signal-carrying leads, but I wouldn't worry about them with heaters. """


I may be the one who gave Gabi the info on this..

In some amps its more do to vibrations and things like that in signal wires. But if its placed in the right position,or as some use silicone to hold them from moving. Then its not a problem. I think most use 20,22 or 24 ga.

When using solid wire ,you might want to consider the size ,if your going to have a couple wires into a pot lug conection or another lead with a wire. So you have room to make them fit. If the wire is to big, you can't get them in the lug,and have to resort to doing it another way. Many amps have been built using both types.

Richie

[Plexi]

Oh i forgot to add a link to a great place to get cloth wire and other types.

http://www.apexjr.com/wire.html

Richie

[Aaron]

would it be a terrible thing to use solid 22 wire for the heaters? shouldn't solid wire be able to handle more current than stranded wire of the same guage?

[markh]

That would be fine for the preamp tubes (a la Hiwatt), but the power tubes might be pushing it. One possibility is to use the lead wire from the PT to connect to both EL84s, then uss solid for the rest.

--mark