New 2003 Les Paul - very disappointing

[stevesuk]

I have just bought a brand new 2003 Les Paul Standard, i admit at the cheapest local Surrey (nr. London) music store, although £1500 ($2455) isn't cheap compared to what I have seen quoted in the states.

To put it bluntly it is poor. for want of another four letter word.

I have lusted after an LP since I was 14 years old (a lot of years) and after reading rave reviews of the 2002 models decided i would finally get one.
I tried half a dozen in the shop and they were all pretty much the same.
I have had it a week and have tried several of my 19 amps, all the same result, unpleasant tones even on the 18 watters. The low strings buzz, the top E intonation was out, the action is so-so, it won't stay in tune,the only good point is it looks good ! I have a De Armond Les Paul copy which cost me £100 ($170) new and it beats the LP hands down on all counts.
I can afford a top set up (plek) on the money I have saved over the UK retail £2250 ($3800) that is £120 for a computerised machine and hand set up.
But, should I have to ?

[Twigley]

yeh, well everyone in the UK seem to pay about 10% more than the US on anything. even marshall! As for Gibson.. well i hope your not married. prices for both the big names fender an gibson are over the top even if they are very good instruments. and when you get a bad one like that it makes you think. You could get a good custom instrument made to your specs.

[Plexi]

A friend brought over his wah for me to mod..said he bought a new LP.. and only had it a few months..and the headstock broke. this is a common problem.But he took it back,and i guess it wasn't covered. they did split the difference of about 300.00 to repair it..So he had to pay 150.00 and shipping back to Gibson.. He was pretty bummed out over it..
but i have a couple other friends, and they have 2002 models..they love them.. they are the more expensive models. I believe one was about 3800 to 4000..

Richie

[LPC]

Wow - thats a bummer that your having problems with the ax. I purchased a couple of new Gibsons, and they too had the same factory set up issuses (unless they came from a shop that had a tech checking them or setting them up in-house). I think the guitars probably leave Gibson in OK shape, but through shipping, and warehousing etc, they might "go out" a little. Either that or Gibson is really lazy and figures that most people that buy a new ax take it right away and have it set up to their specs.

As far as the lousy tones, did you give it a chance in a live setting yet? A while ago I used to own an Epiphone DOT (korean es 335 knock off), that I bought because I read all of the reviews etc on it, and everyone swore it was the same as an ES 335. I bought it mail order, and boy did it seem sweet when it arrived. I threw a set of expensive PAF replicas in it and rocked out with it for about a year with my band. After a while, I got the itch to get the real thing, and I went out and got my first real Gibson, an ES 335 reissue. I swapped the PAF's in, and to my surprise, in my bedroom, the tone differance was NOT night and day. Yes, the Gibson felt better, and was making some better sounds, but it didnt seem like $2000 extra worth of better sounds (ya know?). Well, along comes the first gig with the new ax, at a medium sized club. WOW - when I broke into the first lead, I couldnt belive how it cut through the band - like the old blanket off the amp expression. A couple weeks later at another gig where everything was mic-ed, the sound guy approached me after the set and was like "man that guitar sounds incredible"....I am thinking to myself, huh? Did someone just compliment me on the sound of my guitar? Thats never happen before! Sooo, I dunno I was glad I didnt bring it back to the store after my initial bedroom test.

Maybe you just got stuck with a lemon though, it happens. Either way let us know how it works out. BTW your right it does look awsome!!

[EBE]

I paid $1100 for a used (but great shape) les paul classic from a dealer in Memphis, TN. I swapped the pickups out and put in 57 classics, had the action done (the bridge had to be bent up some to fix a buzzing problem) and I love this guitar. For classic rock with the 18watt it can't be beat.

[danelectro]

um, set it up?

[stevesuk]

Looks like a set up then. Has anyone tried the PLEK system where a computerised machine checks the frets, alignment, intonation etc. etc. and then fettles the frets etc supposedly to perfection ? you then get a print out of the settings which can be repeated as necessary. (£120 / $200)
Replying to LP, I wouldn't even take it to practice in the state it's in.
I have already stretched the strings, adjusted the intonation and tuned it a dozen times. The wife is decorating the amp room at the moment so I can't get at the clean sounding amps. When I do, i'll try it on the Sound City or Selmer, that will give me a starting point.
If it had been the ' odd one out ' in the shop ok, but they were all similar. I just thought it was me not being used to a brand new 'quality' guitar.
Perhaps this particular well known store is getting rejects from Rosetti (importers) thats why it's the best price.
Never mind it looks good, smells good and has a lovely black silky coffin shroud in the lizard skin case. Oh and three 'free ' plectrums !!
Ain't life a bitch sometimes

[Benboom]

Unlike just about everybody else in the business, Gibson has bucked the trend of making instrumnts more affordable. I have a page on my site that talks about this at http://www.xprt.net/~benboom/ampprices.htm and it includes a link to some stories about Gibson.

But for a very interesting story about Gibson go here:
http://www.tennessean.com/sii/00/05/28/gibson28.shtml

Sorry, I won't see any replies to this as I'm just going out the door for a vacation and won't be back for over a week.

[LPC]

Thats some cool reading. I think a new studio lp for 999.00 or what ever they go for is an OK deal with a case. 6k for a reissue though....

[fAT_E]

The story of stevesuk sounds like a nightmare to me.
I've made the same experiences when I wanted to buy a Strat 4 years ago, last not least I've bought a japanese Squier and have build in some Seymor-Duncon picks...the best what I could get for my money .

The much higher prices and the low quality -compared to former times- is making me real angry .

i.e.:
I've bought my LP in 1975 for 350,- $ from an american soldier here in gerMANY. The guitar was set up 100% perfect by the factory. I have build in some PAF picks and since this time I didn't move any srews to set it up again and "she" is still 100% perfect after all these years .

My opinion:
Maybe due to reason of making profit in stagnating market, the factories are under pressure and use more and more (cheaper)low-cost, low-quality (materials) components .
The sound of a guitar is made by the sum of all of the sounds of its components (neck, body, hardware, picks and electric). And if there are some "bad components" in your guitar you can set up and tune what ever you want, you never get the sound you wanted .
That's the reason why I build up my own guitars up to that day they are making good prices for good instruments again .

...life can be hard 'n cruel...

I hope, I was not to negative in my first post ...

[loverocker]

My newest Gibson is a '98 LP DC Standard that I bought new. It had some very similar setup issues and several fit and finish issues. That said, it is a fabulous sounding guitar and I've got used to its 'not-ideal' frets. It could definitely do with a Plek, but I'm waiting to speak to someone who's had one done before doing it.

But when I wanted a top-quality '59er LP, I ordered from Tokai (LS-320). I also don't like Gibson's marketing methods on the Historic reissues - i.e. make a 2002 R9, and then say that the 2003 R9 is even more accurate. Huh?

[kollantai]

Sorry about your luck, Steve. Do you have the factory specs for a LP setup. I can email them to you want.... I have an 86' LP custom that I wouldn't trade for the world. I can't imagine an LP that plays badly after a good setup, including intonation, pickup/pole adjustment, and proper neck relief.

[stevesuk]

Kollainti,
I would be grateful for the LP specs. I have spoken to a luthier today who quoted £60 ($100 ?) for a hand setup, same for old or new guitar. I think i'll go for the computerised PLEK setup at £120 ($200) it is a computer age 2003 guitar after all

my email address is nospamstevesmith350@hotmail.com

remove the nospam.
Thanks for your offer.
Steve

[englishjim]

I thought Rossetti used some big noise to set their guitars up before they sent them to dealers. Perhaps they have stopped...

I got mine set up by a guy who used to work in a London show where he worked on Eric Clapton and Peter Greens Les Pauls among others. I though he might have the experience

I would have thought that a setup would cure all the playing issues. As for sound, surely they haven't changed their pickups to the extent that they sound bad. Perhaps the playability is so indifferent that it spoils the whole experience.

I hope you get it sorted soon.

If you want details of my guitar tech, drop me a line.

[zaphod_phil]

I'm pretty sure Rosetti expect the dealer to do the setup for each customer. This is where you lose out with some of the mail-order operations. BTW I read a review of the Plek setup system in Guitar magazine a couple of years ago, and they were *very* impressed by it. They had the setup done by Chandler Guitars (in Kingston on Thames), for a fairly low action. So if you want a very low super-slick shreddable action, Plek is probably worth it. If you just want a generally nice and playable one, any good Luthier's setup should be more than ample.

BTW I just did a quick rough n'ready setup of my nephew's Strat copy last week. It was easier to do than I had expected, and the improvement was very obvious. He was amazed at how much nicer the guitar was to play. And I'd never really dared to mess around much with a guitar's setup before, prefering to leave it to the luthiers.

[Aaron]

it could just need to settle and break in. i bought a Guild Starfire IV - basically a 335, but a few hundred less with similar quality, and the tone was amazing, but the thing had crazy intonation problems and would *never* stay in tune. I mean, you couldnt play a complete song without it going out on at least two strings. this was even after getting it set up by a *great* guitar guy here in boston (Mouridian guitar repair). the guy has done a great job on everything else i have. But anyway, i stuck with it and after a couple months the thing just started to come into its own. It now holds tune better than any other guitar i have and the action sort of came down by itself and is perfectly low with no buzzing. it's really strange, but it just took som time to become a good instrument. it wasnt so good right off the shelf.

just keep working it in, there's no reason it should stay so crappy.

Aaron

[Plexi]

Aaron, I'm sure his new guitar can be set up to play great, but the thing is, when you fork out such big bucks for a guitar it should be set up better than what Gibson is doing. I think one thing is, its hard to please everyone in one setup. Some like there guitars set different,some with low action,some with higher action. Then string gauge would matter..but far as fret buzz and things like that,these high dollar gibsons shouldn't have that. I think too, most on here have played a LP, firebird, or SG..Vee..335 etc.. and most of those will play fantastic. Some of the best playing guitar i've owned have been Gibsons. I also hear the same comments about the fenders,and have played those. You almost have to go through alot of guitars to find one that doesn't buzz and rattle,and those are the USA high dollar fenders. And found many of the less expensive mexican or Japan made Fenders play alot better. Most musicians i know don't have alot of money,and if they buy an expensive guitar,they play them and choose a certian guitar that suits them. I don't think they order one,and just take what is sent.
I've seen alot of both sides on the Gibson and Fenders..some will get lucky and get a great playing guitar. And others fight with the thing to have one improved,only for it to get worse.. It just seems, if you work hard to earn the money to buy an expensive quality guitar,thats what you should get..

Richie

[Aaron]

richie,

oh MOST definitely! I'd be very ticked off if I spent that much on an instrument and didn't get the absolute best right off the bat in terms of look, play, and sound with no compromise at all. I was upset enough with my $1000 guild let alone one worth twice or three times as much. but other than return this one to the store and try to find a new one that plays well there's not much to do besides try to break it it. after all, the actual components are top notch - good bridge, nut, and tuners, so nothing is inherently wrong with it other than set up. so you could say i was just trying to encourage him and make it a little easier to bear

but man, i definitely sympathize!

-Aaron

[zaphod_phil]

.but far as fret buzz and things like that,these high dollar gibsons shouldn't have that.

You're dead right! It just indicates an arrogance on Gibson's part that they expect people to pay big money for guitar's that haven't been setup....

[Wannatone]

Steve,

the dealer should set your new guitar up just fine. If he hasn´t before putting it on the shop floor , he should apologize and do it in a heartbeat.

If you can´t get it fixed with the dealer, you may post on the Les Paul Forum www.lespaulforum.com in the tech area. There´s a cool guy from the Gibson factory (as well as many others) who´ll probably take care of your problem.

Just to add that there is Dan Erlewine, too with his own area. And, I can highly recommend to get a copy of his "Guitar Player Repair Guide".

Adrian