Comparison JJ and ANYTHING else...

[argus]

I found a bunch of tubes recently I had forgotten. Some extra JJs, some old Mullards, and a some unlabeled things that were new, but very old. Went to a local radio repair guy to get them tested. Before I forget, some were unused, brand new, carefully stored Mesa Boogie brand output tubes when metered were complete trash! Threw them out on the spot!

Anyway, as this is a radio guy, he hadn't ever seen a JJ. He held it up, looked at it curiously and said "is this ever crap!". I had been under the impression JJ were decent for new tubes. I asked why he thought that as he looking. He held up one of my Mullards next to the JJ, the prongs (sorry if that's the wrong word) were FAR smaller diameter on the JJ. He questioned if they would even make contact in his tester. They did, but with coaxing. Then he had me hold a Mullard between my thumb and first finger and tapped it. Asked what I felt, my reply was "nothing". Then I held the JJ in the same manner. I felt the insides shake horrifically with the tap!

He asked what I used this JJ in. I explained that I was guitarist, and he was shocked that I would play this tube so close to a speaker. He rolled his eyes and said "if it gives you the sound you want, I guess that's all that matters".

In further converstaion he said the only new tubes he had seen guitarists with that impressed him were Groove Tubes. I always thought that company was just trying to sell product based on having a catchy name.

I was in a Guitar Center the next day, and bought a set of 4 EL84s Groove Tubes I saw behind the counter on lark to compare. The Groove Tubes were a HUGE difference over the JJs in my DC30. I mean HUGE! Went back and bought some smaller GTs as well.

This sounds like an ad, but I don't even know anyone who works for any tube company. I'm just always in the market for readily available new tubes that are solid and perform well. I just checked my favoured Marshalls, the Marshall branded tubes all said Svetlana on the other side. I own a lot of amps, and all the ones that sound good all have NOS, Russian, or Groove tubes in. The amps I own that seemed lacking or noisey had JJs in. I always carried extras, ussually bought JJs, but never got on the NOS bandwagon, thinking I was listening to the curcuit and not as much the brand of tube.

No more JJs for me. Does anyone really like them? How did they get so popular?

[brownnote]

groove tubes are jj's with a GT logo

All GT are rebranded JJ's russian and china made tubes with the exception of the GE type 6L6.

[argus]

As stated, I never thought much of GT, however thier website states they no longer use Chinese tubes, and the one I bought are physically different than ever other JJ in my home. It may be that the GTs I bought are indeed Russian, and the JJs I have all all Chinese-or the other way around!

I am not suggesting I or anyone else should just automatically buy groove tubes, but rather that I have had a very good experience.

I don't don't anything about amp building, I bow to the knowledge you guys have. I do have keen eyes and ears however, and the JJ's I have in house are different, and I would even say inferior structuraly from anything else I have on close examination. I am embarrased it has taken me so long to do a serious A/B test of tubes I already owned. I remain impressed with the current GTs I bought. They are absolutely different than the JJs I have in all ways, sonic and visual.

Seems to me the big problem with tubes these days, and maybe always haas been, is you never know truely what anything is by what it says. Visual and sonic inspection is the only way to tell if you like it. The practice of rebranding has been going on all along, that I do know. If I could buy readily available legit English Mullards for a reasonable price that would be my first choice. If I had telefunkens to compare they may well win over the Mullards. Maybe RCA would...who knows. Taste is subjective. The reason for this thread was just huge dissapointment over the quality of the JJ and Boogie tubes I own.

As the Radio guy I visited said "if you like the sound...". Hey, Strats are not the structural accomplishment a Les Paul is, but they are without question wonderful instruments. Still a LP is a finer constructed instrument.

Fair enough?

[martinw]

.... and the JJs I have all all Chinese-or the other way around!

I thought JJ's were made in their own factory in eastern Europe?

As the Radio guy I visited said "if you like the sound...". Hey, Strats are not the structural accomplishment a Les Paul is, but they are without question wonderful instruments. Still a LP is a finer constructed instrument.

Fair enough?

Exactly. With many guitars and amps, it's often the relative lack of build quality that provides the sounds we all aspire to. I think many so-called guru's under-analyse and over-simplify things. For example, stronger equals better, bigger equals better and so on. In Hi-Fi maybe it does, but we guitarists thrive on things being too small, running on the limit, old fashioned, imperfect, inefficient.....

[Loupy31]

Ok, let me get this right,

What you are saying is that you prefer your GT's over the JJ's.

I may have missed it, but what amp are they used in?

peter

[Raja]

I tried thumping some of my tubes and the JJ's did vibrate and rattle, but so did alot of my Groove Tubes. One that didn't was the GT version of a Mullard.

[MrMike]

He is a radio guy. If the JJs sound good and last long then thats all that matters. You are not playing a radio.

[markh]

JJs are made in their own factory in the Slovak Republic. Like all modern tubes, some models are better then others. For example, I like their 6V6s and new KT77.

EIs are also made in a republic that was part of the former Yugoslavia.

Groove Tubes are made all over the world, GT generally just buys them in bulk from manufacturers in Russia or China and selects the ones that work best. They did do a run of tubes or two using tooling they bought, but I don't know what became of that project, as those particular tubes seem in short supply recently.

All EH, including new Svetlana/"Mullard"/"Tung-Sol" branded tubes are made in Russia.

SED "flying C" tubes are made in Russia as well, but in a different location.

--mark

[StratJeffMN]

So are these yours for sale here in St. Paul now?

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/msg/253933936.html

[HiWaTTage]

Jeff -

Way off topic here, but do you play for Janie in Wonderland?

If so, I've been your sound guy at Bogarts a few times.

[argus]

Well, I didn't mean to start such a debate here. Thanks to the Admin for the info. No offense to anyone, I was just very surprised by my discovery.

Yes, I DO perfer the Groove Tubes to my JJs in my Ceriatone DC30. Perhaps the next thing I buy in a GT box I won't like, I am aware they are of varied origins. Surprised the number of people here who like thier JJs and hate GrooveTubes!

While I am not a builder such as most all of you, I do have a long backfround in Hi-Fi. I've owned $20K of Tube Mono Blocks for my home stereo. I never got into swapping tubes in those days, as it would've cost another fortune. Also, I have been a working musician for nearly 30 years, so when I am counting on some little pieces of glass to get paid, and they appear to be flimsy, I get a bit nervous. Considering the build factor of JJs, and the fact I have found other tubes I like more, unlikely I will buy JJs in the future. More for everyone else!

As for my extra tubes, I am currently selling several amps, Marshalls, Laney, etc., and will be including extra tubes with them, and of course keeping full sets of spares for my remaining amps. The Mullards I have I believe were made in the UK as I have owned them since before the Iron Curtain fell. Amazing how long you can forget about stuff in a drawer.

[argus]

You must be good HiWaTTage! All the guys at Bogart's have been top notch. Love that room!

Janie in Wonderland still around?

[rjgtr]

GT's are made in all the current factories. So the question is which model GTs do you have? Some are Sovtek made, some are JJ made and some are Chinese made.

I personally think JJs are very good sounding, but that doesn't mean they work for everybody. I fixed up a BF Twin for a guy (basically a cap job) and he didn't like the vintage RCAs it came with. I checked them on the tube tester and listened to the amp and I thought they were great. He just really likes those old Sovtek 5881s with the wafer base. I detest those tubes, but he's happy.

So beauty is in the ear of the beholder.

[HiWaTTage]

Bogeys is a fun room. Not the prettiest PA in the whole world, but it's a nice sounding PA and plenty of volume on tap.

Being that I'm a 9-5 guy now, I'm only a weekend warrior there, but ti's always a good time.

To keep this OT, I actually run JJ EL84's in my AC30CC and they were an upgrade from the EH's that it shipped with.

[StratJeffMN]

Jeff -

Way off topic here, but do you play for Janie in Wonderland?

If so, I've been your sound guy at Bogarts a few times.

Wow! Small world. Yes, I did - the band broke up in October. Are you the young guy that used to work at Guitar Center? Sorry, I can't remember your name...

[HiWaTTage]

That's me.

So you're in Prior Lake? I'm actually living in Burnsville now. Just started my first 18 watt build.

I saw that you just finished ours on your YouTube page. If I've got a crisis, any chance you'd be willing to help with the layout?

[StratJeffMN]

Hey man!

Email me, I think we've hijacked this thread enough here...

jeff dot rutland at gmail dot com

Talk to you soon!

[nomad100]

I've not tried a lot of tubes these are the one's i've tried thus far: JJ 6L6's, JJ 12AX7's, JJ EL84, Sovtek EL84, Mesa 6L6's 12AX7's, Electro harmonics 6L6's Electro Harmonics 12AX7's, A chines 12AX7 that was in my VJ.

I play threw a Mesa Nomad100 HD and a 2x12 recto cab. (somtimes a 1x12 practice/cab) I play rock-metal. I also have a unmodded Valve Junior i don't know if it counts.
My buddy plays threw a Pig Nose HD into a 2x12 recto cab. He has a laney too but i've not really played it yet. All test are with my Mesa unless other specified.

[6L6's]So far the winner have all been JJ tubes. The mesa 6L6's sounded sterile, Even when i used two JJ 6L6's feeding two Mesa 6L6's the mesa tubes robbed me of my tone. The EH 6L6's bass response sounded like flapping cardboard threw a pig nose HD so i never bother trying them in my mesa. The JJ 6L6's sound awesome in his pig nose.

[12AX7's] The EH tubes sounded bad to me, can't label it exactly. I didn't like them in the unmodded Valve Jr or the pignose. I have yet to go back and try the EH again in the VJ after changing the el84 to a jj. I love the sound of my JJ pre tubes. nice mids, not harsh at all. I hate the harsh sound. I can't really rate the chines tube it had more gain than what i'm used to. I've also tried a JJ long plate pretube it sounded good i my valve junior which is a muddy amp.

[EL84] I'm not sure in general if i like EL84's The sovtek tube had such a nasty sound. It made a tube amp sound digital to me. Since i put the JJ EL84 in the VJ i like the sound so much better, a lot warmer. The valve junior has no punch, but that could be due to OT I need to still change.

The JJ 6L6's had a great review at thetubestore.com I'll probably play around with different pretubes at some point. It's my nature to experiment.

[pylet2000]

I can somewhat speak on this topic from past experiences. From JJ, I have purchased and lived with the following:

ECC83
ECC83S
ECC803
GZ34
EL84
6V6

I installed the JJ 6L6 in my bass players Mesa 400+ bass rig, uses 12 of them suckers. I think the "400+" represents the $400+ a complete retube will cost...

In my experience, JJ is pretty spotty on rattles. Of the three sets of 6V6 I've gone through, I've gotten one that was rattly beyond the point of usable. I have had some of the preamp tubes go microphonic/rattly pretty quick, too. Tonewise though, the JJ 6V6 is unbeatable against any other new production 6V6. They almost rival the veritable RCA's, I have a healthy pair of grey plates and the JJ's come close in presentation and break-up character. They are usable for sure, but bring some backups along.

For the preamp tubes, anything but the newest ECC803 is inferior, IMHO. The ECC83 and ECC83S sound kinda lifeless clean, and get really unpleasant when driven. The ECC803 has REALLY long plates and is prone to microphonics, but the tone is pushing that of the great classics. Use with caution but expect really good tonal results, pretty rich.

For the EL84, I prefer the Ei, but you need to buy them in bulk to get good ones that last any length of time. The JJ's are solid, and sound moderately good, so they work as a stable compromise, and sound okay enough.

The GZ34 single handedly upped the B+ by about 15 volts in a BFDR I retubed, and also in my gladly departed Mesa Maverick.

I can't really gauge the 6L6 tone in terms of breakup character, as they are in a bass amp. They do sound "bigger" and more defined than the Mesa rebranded Sovtek's that came in it. I can truly say they are mechanically sound though. After two years of use they still aren't rattly, and God knows that beastly amp sitting on top of the earthquake inducing bass cab would expose any rattles in the JJ 6L6.

I have found the power amps tubes to sound generally good, and the preamp tubes are starting to come around. More time and cashflow should only improve the JJ's.

Don't even get me started on Groove Tube. I absolutely loathe that company, although I give them credit for bringing back the 6L6GE's. That Mullard "reissue" 12AX7 really angered me. For the price they charge, buy three Ei gold AX7's, they sound better and between three of them one will be really stable and long lived.

[nomad100]

I'll have to try an ei tubes, The thing that held me off was there failure rate. If they have a lot better tone than i'll have to check it out. I have a long plate tube i swap round some. I've been holding off putting it in my mesa, since it has a lower output than the other JJ 12AX7's. I order my JJ tubes from eurotubes.com. Bob quality controls them pretty well. I've never received a bad tube. I think i've retubed 4 amps now. I would also like to try some higher gain pre tubes. Bob has some higher gain 12AX7's he checks all the tubes and sorts them accordingly. I'm not against buying different pre tubes and testing them, there cheap. Do any of you just change V1 to try different pretubes instead of changing all 5. Sorry to sound like an add i've just had a really great experience with that guy. I wouldn't buy groove tubes myself they ask to much, I'd find out what model of tube they relabeled and buy that tube if i really liked one of there tubes.