Found a non-original 18 watt - is it worth anything?

[be]

Hey all.

I walked into a music store this weekend and nearly had a heart attack - there was an 18-watt marshall for peanuts. i thought, 'all my dreams have come true!' and ran off to get a celestion date code sheet from an internet cafe and returned to surreptitiously date it.

upon getting at the back, i found that there was no valve rectifier, two no-name output tubes and one lonely preamp tube. the speaker was a mid-eighties greenback celestion. i decided that asking to see the insides might tip them off that it's worth something and spoil any chances i had of talking the price down furthur with them, so i'm asking here if anyone thinks this is worth anything considering the speaker is non-original and the insides are probably someone else's homebrew?

the case was old looking but not dinged up and the panel had the writing quite faded. original knobs and switch and chassis tho.

cheers
--
Darren

[markd]

Darren,
That amp is almost certainly a Marshall model 1930 "Popular". No rectifer tube and a single preamp tube. It uses ECL86 tubes for the PI and Output section. Puts out about 10watts. These are rare and collectable but don't sound all that great. Some unscrupulous types( do we really need to name them) have converted these to 18watt amps and sold them as original. Take a look at the photos on this site to see photos of one:

http://www.amptone.com/marshallcapri.htm

Scroll down a ways for the 1930.
hth, markd

[be]

Yep, that's it! i didn't actually check the output valves to see what they were, just the size, and my photographic memory was telling me at the time that the marshall logo was on the speaker grille instead of on a seperate strip above.

any clues on how to find out what a good price would be, or where to sell it?

--
Darren

[zaphod_phil]

Get out there and buy it quick!!!
Then keep it and enjoy it - at least for a while.

These are rare and collectable but don't sound all that great.

Going by various posts I have read, I think most 1930 owners would disagree with that comment about how they sound!
I have attached the schem. It's basically a Trem-channel only version of the 18W, using a pair of ECL86s for the PI and power stage, as the ECL86/6GWG is a 12AX7's triode with a mini EL84 in the same glass. However, this amp has a quirk in that the tone and volume controls are at the input jack, before the first preamp stage. This means you will get a lot of interaction between the guitar and amp controls, and the input signal will always be somewhat attenuated compared to a regular 18W. I think it would be a very simple mod to re-route the wiring, so the volume and tone controls come between the preamp and PI. Visiually it would stilll look the same inside the chassis, so the amp wouldn't loose any value, and the mod would be easily reversible if anyone was really fussy. The Watkins/WEM Westminster is also quite similar to this amp (although it uses ECL82s), just like the 18W is similar to the WEM Dominator, which helps you see how it can be done - http://www1.korksoft.com/~schem/bargain ... inster.pdf

[loverocker]

I agree with Phil. If it works and it's cheap, buy it. If you decide you don't like the tone, you can always make up a full-blown 18W chassis from a kit and swap it with the original (it fits in the same cabinet without other changes).

PS: Phil - just found a recent email from you in my Drafts folder! Dunno how that happened - I'm not ignoring you!

[be]

heh, my amps are all covered in blue fur so it's not worth anything at all to me, other than possibly being able to sell it to a collector

it's also at a price which would be cheap for an 18-watt but perhaps not cheap for a 1930. i was taking into account that it was an 18-watt which i've seen on ebay for USD$4k.

thanks for all your help, i would never in a hundred years have figured this out myself! if anyone is in touch with a collector's market and can tell me if it has any value given that the speaker has been replaced, please post!

--
Darren

*goes and plays his spitfire clone*

[zaphod_phil]

Hey don't be in such a rush to sell it off. Also, don't forget these amps are rarer then 18W amps, so can fetch high prices too.

Take a look at the photos on this site to see photos of one:
http://www.amptone.com/marshallcapri.htm

Heh, I got one of those little 1X12 amps shown at the top of the page - the Mercury. Nice basket weave grill material on it too. Thin trebly tone and a lot of hum (it only used half wave rectification!). The circuit was on a PCB, with a black scorch mark around the EL84 socket. I have been using it as a donor cab for various fiendish amp experiments of mine. The latest is a Lite II, but using a pair of ECL86s. Now it's got a vintage G12H-30 in there, all Mullard valves, and a Shinrock OT. I'm still tweaking it, but it's turning into a great little retro-looking fire breather. I've also yet to add in tremolo. It's my take on what I think Marshall should really have made the Mercury.

[loverocker]

thanks for all your help, i would never in a hundred years have figured this out myself! if anyone is in touch with a collector's market and can tell me if it has any value given that the speaker has been replaced, please post!

I have a database of Marshall prices I've kept for a while (some around here think it sad!). Anyway it tells me the typical metal-panel versions of those combos ('69-'73) have been selling for around £500-600 in the UK. In the USA dealer prices are £1000+. Lots of amps of that age have misc replaced speakers, broken logos, etc.

There are also some earlier ones with plexi panels - they're worth much more. A claimed '65 "near mint, pinstripe grille" was up for £3000 in the UK a while ago (who knows what it sold at?).

Hope this helps.

[be]

sure has!! thanks heaps!

--
Darren

[wilko]

I've got a 1930 with a cream colored front. It sounds just like a Marshall and is not loud at all. Right now it houses my GDS 18watt. The channels and controls work the same.

[loverocker]

Seen that pic before and it still gives me goosebumps

[be]

kickass